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Planet Ownership

#1
I know we lost the vote on this in favour of Linux/Apple but this is still something obviously a lot of people voted on and want in the game, so I thought I would bring it to this section of the site as an independent thread rather than veined within the vote thread.

Josh has already stated we will be able to buy (acquire by force?) businesses on the planets such as manufacturing units etc that produce the materials etc.

A natural progression from this would be to take over and control the whole planet, and my vision for this would be each planet (we own) in effect become a "sim" type game where we can appoint NPC managers to the various tasks.

Starting with the manufacturing unit for example, it would need raw materials and then produce something. A "NPC collector" could be hired to go collect these raw materials, each load would take different times as it may need to go further afield as resources dry up. It may need fighter escorts to prevent pirate attacks etc. A "NPC Manager" could be assign to run the unit for us and have different abilities for production, management and honesty etc. (leading to different pay grades and output). Another "NPC Delivery Boy" could be tasked with taking the outputted product to different planets for sales (again the level of the NPC determining his haggling ability for the best prices etc). Of course all of these jobs we could do ourselves but we could "bot" them by hiring the NPC guys. Profits from the business to be taxed by the faction that controls the planet.

Then repeat that kind of process for each business on the planet but with different variables obviously.

Then the ultimate aim to own the planet itself. We then collect taxes from the businesses we don't own ourselves and the population. However again a "NPC Planetory Management Team" could be hired to perform the various functions of government, such as security, health, education etc. (keep the population happy etc.)

After finding and hiring the best team for the job the planet and businesses would pretty much tick over on auto pilot allowing us the time to move on and expand our empire and enjoy other aspects of the game.

However obviously as time goes along we will need to return to the planet to sort out issues such as staff leaving, collectors/delivery boys getting shot down and therefore ruining the production flow etc.

I would LOVE to see this kind of approach adopted in the game. Its pretty similar to NPC controlling the fleet I would think, probably a lot easier to code!

A bit like a SIM CITY type aspect for each planet. But using procedural technique each planet would present different challenges depending on whatever factors are presented.

So even if we dont get Planet Ownership initially (although hopefully the next stretch goal as it came second in the vote!) can this concept of NPC management be adopted to the individual businesses at least for those that want to use it, those that dont are obviously catered for as they could do their own mining of raw materials and deliveries of finished products themselves, but then have the option to NPC it later if they want to!
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Re: Planet Ownership

#2
While I agree that id have preferred seeing Planetary ownership (followed closely by faction control) be our first goal. expanding to include Linux and apple market will bring more people who will be willing to buy the game there by giving us more money to fund more goals faster. overall i dont see why this was even a stretch goal to begin with and not a given obvious choice. now on to the topic at hand XD.

i like the idea of 'sim city' level of control of a planet being the micro management freak that i am.) but i think theres a lot to be said for a more simplistic approach after-all micro management of factories could become a project all its own once youve taken over 3-5 planets (i tested this recently by running 3 instances of sim city at one time... none of them did well. XD.) something more along the lines of a civs game interface where you just interact with a 'planetary adviser' might make large scale operations more feasible. set up a series of 'governor directives' and return to the planet once and a while to see how things have developed, put out the brush fires every once and a while and pat yourself on the back as you rake in the windfalls. (personally i plan on setting up a fleet factory and academy to train my personal armada XD.)
If I've rambled and gone off topic im sorry but i tend to be long winded as you might notice if you stumble across my other post XD. thanks for reading.
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Re: Planet Ownership

#3
The only thing that grinds me a bit is the planet ownership.
I think that would break the immersion a little for me, so let me try to explain why.

I can't get over the fact that one person owns a whole planet. I can see one person owning a large corporation but not a whole planet. Why?
Because I assuming they will always be others (NPCs) living on that planet as well so it's only normal that assets would be divvied up amongst the planets populace
I do like the business approach though...

Let's walk through a sample scenario.

(ps: these are all assumptions.)

New game -> Start small. One small ship I assume. Run errands/trade/guard/fight/escort/assasinate/steal/??? to make money.
Buy bigger ship more ships. Procedurally generate NPC businesses, corporations on populated worlds.
Use the same materials market code but make a stock market to buy sell shares (for that planet)
Flying to another planet gives you different NPC companies.
Build up your portfolio by buying/selling materials and/or trading shares while flying across the universe?
Procedurally generate market fluctuations upon players return to that planet (if they own any assets there)

I'd keep it very simply though. treat it the same as materials/minerals etc. I wouldn't bother with trying to code up persisted player companies or anything like that.

Could be interesting though...
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Re: Planet Ownership

#4
If our role within the game was to play a faction, or a company, or an entire species, I suppose I could get behind planet ownership and management. There are lots of games that do that and some of them do it well. However, within the context of the game (so far), we're playing a single person with a ship and a whole universe to explore. Even if and when we can afford to buy a 2nd, 3rd, 4th ship, we need NPCs to pilot them (for pay? for free? no idea).

Also, it changes the very nature of the game, doesn't it? Instead of experiencing the universe, we're playing Civilization: Alpha Centauri.

I just don't see it. But apparently plenty of people do, so as long as it doesn't dominate the game as a core mechanic (that is, I am permitted to ignore it), then I have no objection to it. It seems like it ought to be plenty expensive, though, and if there's "collecting rent" or something, where you can generate revenue from your planet, it can't be so profitable that there's no reason to do anything else.
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Re: Planet Ownership

#5
No no no, keep it simple, keep it plain. I dont want to visit every planet to make sure its still "running right" after I have left it to explore something else, after all who really has the time when there is a UNIVERSE to explore? So keep the planetary management if you will simple, more like a Protostar vibe, get the materials/lifeforms leave and get going! Also heres a tid bit, why not include the ability to destroy the planet? Be it through extortion or sheer brute force??? MMMMMM Planetary explosions :D
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Re: Planet Ownership

#6
Yeah, Sim City was a bit OTT, but gave the general idea, however I agree the planet management should be relatively easy game play wise, so as not to distract from other missions and general exploration. I read somewhere tonight Josh is planning on having the factions control the planets by default, so maybe this goes hand in hand with the create faction feature, i.e. start small and build up as mentioned above (that was a given in my post I dont expect to buy planets very quickly!) but once you have built up a few ships, then a fleet, then a space station or two, then created your own faction, build that up to a point you are strong enough to battle other factions (who already control planets) and take a planet or two from your enemies. Actually I like this idea better than just "buying planets".

Totally agree with not making too much money from planets, they could even be a slight drain on income (look at UK/USA/most countries economies at present!) however to offset that we would benefit someway with ownership by being able to build new businesses or something that we cant get unless we own/control the planet.

With regard to the gameplay and ambassador comment above, yes the npc would pretty much run things, i dont want to get bogged down managing the day to day workings of the businesses/planets but would love the ability to build it up as per the OP then let the NPC team in place take care of it, with a little bit of TLC from me now and again to keep things ticking over.

@ronincabo it would be totally optional. the feature is already planned to be able to build/buy businesses on the planets, this is just extending that out to own the whole planet. Many want this ability but for those of you who dont you wont have to. Josh is trying to create the ultimate game he would love to play himself, which looks as though he and you are going to enjoy the epic fleet battles etc. which is fine, but many of us want to do this also from the recent vote. The sandbox idea is we all get to play the game how we want, blowing stuff up will be a given! but not planets I think that already got rejected from memory (unfortunately as that would be pretty cool lol).
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Re: Planet Ownership

#8
extropymine wrote:If our role within the game was to play a faction, or a company, or an entire species, I suppose I could get behind planet ownership and management. There are lots of games that do that and some of them do it well. However, within the context of the game (so far), we're playing a single person with a ship and a whole universe to explore. Even if and when we can afford to buy a 2nd, 3rd, 4th ship, we need NPCs to pilot them (for pay? for free? no idea).

Also, it changes the very nature of the game, doesn't it? Instead of experiencing the universe, we're playing Civilization: Alpha Centauri.

I just don't see it. But apparently plenty of people do, so as long as it doesn't dominate the game as a core mechanic (that is, I am permitted to ignore it), then I have no objection to it. It seems like it ought to be plenty expensive, though, and if there's "collecting rent" or something, where you can generate revenue from your planet, it can't be so profitable that there's no reason to do anything else.
I agree with much of the above but would go even further. If you want to own a planet, you should have to manage it properly. Just like a city in Civilization, if you mismanage a planet, you should face the financial and political consequences of your misrule. If you don't wish to shoulder the responsibility and are unwilling to put out the effort required to properly manage a planet then you likely shouldn't own or take control of one (well, unless you like to sow chaos on an intergalactic level :mrgreen: ).
I know not what life is, nor death.
Year in year out-all but a dream.
Both Heaven and Hell are left behind;
I stand in the moonlit dawn,
Free from clouds of attachment.
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Re: Planet Ownership

#9
+1 to super complex planet management.

If you're going to own and manage a planet, it must be a huge undertaking. Not only financial-wise but real-world time-wise. It must be a heavy investment on the part of the player. Planning food supplies, raw materials and fuel to kick start the colony (if little-to-no population present) or manage the existing supply lines and find ways to trim it down (maybe the planet was sold because the previous owner could no longer efficiently manage the needs of the planet or went bankrupt because of it). Defense would be a must since I believe no one would want to settle on a planet where your safety isn't guaranteed. Orbital defense stations, refueling depots for patrolling ships...stuff like that. Ase the planet grows, the needs of the people will increase. More raw materials, more food, more luxuries. Make it such that if the player wants to rule ANOTHER planet on top of this one...well, be my guest. :D
In Josh we trust.
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Re: Planet Ownership

#10
I think Aspman hs the right idea of it all

'With regard to the gameplay and ambassador comment above, yes the npc would pretty much run things, i dont want to get bogged down managing the day to day workings of the businesses/planets but would love the ability to build it up as per the OP then let the NPC team in place take care of it, with a little bit of TLC from me now and again to keep things ticking over.'

'Thinking on, we would need the ability to manage these businesses/planets via the ships on board computers from anywhere, as obviously physically returning to the actual location would be tiresome from the other side of the universe!'

to be able to manage the planets you have direct influence on from an on ship computer via communication with your planetary rep would simplify things substantially. take over planet xyz through whatever means you can think of. set up a planetary proxy to act as a head of affairs while your out in space doing what most of us what to do in the first place. place in a 1-800 call every few weeks to check on things and if you have to return to the planet with a few star destroyers and remind the people "who run barter town".
If I've rambled and gone off topic im sorry but i tend to be long winded as you might notice if you stumble across my other post XD. thanks for reading.
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Re: Planet Ownership

#11
Maybe a Hybrid Hyperspace terminal or something near the planets you own would allow you to quickly (and cheaply) move between your planets. This would provide a couple of benefits:

1> the player would have to return to the planet in order to manage it, so all the logic & code for that planet can be coded within the planet object rather than ships, which may help especailly if planet 2 is totally different from planet 1 and we do end up with a cut down sim city mini game to play on each planet.

2> it wouldnt be a pain to return to planets which are far apart as it would be quick and easy and cheap

3> it would provide an incentive to go through the hoops to capture/control planets in the first place. By doing so you create yourself "jump spots" to quickly move around the universe that you have a controlling interest in.
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Re: Planet Ownership

#12
aspman wrote:Maybe a Hybrid Hyperspace terminal or something near the planets you own would allow you to quickly (and cheaply) move between your planets. This would provide a couple of benefits:

1> the player would have to return to the planet in order to manage it, so all the logic & code for that planet can be coded within the planet object rather than ships, which may help especailly if planet 2 is totally different from planet 1 and we do end up with a cut down sim city mini game to play on each planet.

2> it wouldnt be a pain to return to planets which are far apart as it would be quick and easy and cheap

3> it would provide an incentive to go through the hoops to capture/control planets in the first place. By doing so you create yourself "jump spots" to quickly move around the universe that you have a controlling interest in.

as far as im aware of wormholes are the only kind of jump point (well other than the system to system jumps that we all know of.) available and they are far from reliable.
If I've rambled and gone off topic im sorry but i tend to be long winded as you might notice if you stumble across my other post XD. thanks for reading.
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Re: Planet Ownership

#14
Bele wrote:I sure hope there are ways to quick travel in systems, otherwise we will be spending a majority of our game time cruising between locations.
hes confirmed that larger ships will have jump drive systems and that they may or may not require special fuel to run. but other than that the individual systems have jump points that lead to other systems and the wormholes obviously. i wonder if more advanced systems might have a gate network for fast transportation.
If I've rambled and gone off topic im sorry but i tend to be long winded as you might notice if you stumble across my other post XD. thanks for reading.
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Re: Planet Ownership

#15
Dadalos wrote:
Bele wrote:I sure hope there are ways to quick travel in systems, otherwise we will be spending a majority of our game time cruising between locations.
hes confirmed that larger ships will have jump drive systems and that they may or may not require special fuel to run. but other than that the individual systems have jump points that lead to other systems and the wormholes obviously. i wonder if more advanced systems might have a gate network for fast transportation.
I'm pretty sure the jump drives on large ships are for jumping between systems.
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