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strafe firing

#1
will there be a way to shoot in a direction different from the ship's heading without changing the ship's course? You're most recent video looked like a small dogfight in fighter jets, kinda. You point the guns somewhere and the ship slowly turns in that direction. Will this be the same for larger ships? Not sure if you have a plan to implement strafing.

I was thinking this could be done easily with a button press. You can keep your current piloting method but when a button (mouse3 or something) is press the mouse would only move the targeting reticle/view without changing the ship's course. releasing the button would move the ship to match your weapons' firing direction. This would make it possible to circle strafe around objects/ships. Hope that makes sense.
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Re: strafe firing

#3
It's actually already implemented :) It was subtle, but I used it for a few seconds as I was approaching the big ship for the first time and firing at the asteroid to my right. It is toggleable like in Freelancer!
“Whether you think you can, or you think you can't--you're right.” ~ Henry Ford
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Re: strafe firing

#4
Strafing is one of the big "cheats" in Egosoft's X games.

Capital ship gun bullets (with a range around 6km) have a flight time of up to 30 sec.
Ship speeds range from fighters around 140m/s to capital ships around 70 m/s.
The AI's target lead prediction works perfectly fine.

The big problem is that strafing in X3 is a flat speed vector of 130 m/s - independent of ship type or speed.
It takes about 2-3 sec to reverse the strafe direction from up/left to down/right.

As a result, the target lead prediction is pure comedy, missing a (player strafing) capital ship by several kilometers because the speed vector used to predict the target lead fluctuates by +/- 130 m/s.
With the aforementioned bullet flight times, this translates into hitting the target with an "accuracy" of +/- 3900 m.


I'm not saying that your design is as wonky as that - only that strafing can be a serious balancing issue.

For starters, the relative power of the strafe drive should depend on a ship's maneuvering jets or turning speed - whatever is applicable.
Then there would be at least some balance to stat with. A lumbering capital ship couldn't just dance around all incoming fire...
There is no "I" in Tea. That would be gross.
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Re: strafe firing

#5
Gazz wrote:The big problem is that strafing in X3 is a flat speed vector of 130 m/s - independent of ship type or speed.
It takes about 2-3 sec to reverse the strafe direction from up/left to down/right.

As a result, the target lead prediction is pure comedy, missing a (player strafing) capital ship by several kilometers because the speed vector used to predict the target lead fluctuates by +/- 130 m/s.
With the aforementioned bullet flight times, this translates into hitting the target with an "accuracy" of +/- 3900 m.
That's not strafing imo.

Strafing is turning the nose or guns to point in another direction then your ship is travelling. This has no impact at all on other ships guns trying to lead you since your actually not changing the direction of travel (until you hit that main thrustor when pointing in another direction).


Anyways the game you describe has bullets travlling only 200m/s, so ofcourse they are easy to avoid when all ships travel over half their speed.
Last edited by Ixos on Tue Nov 27, 2012 5:43 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: strafe firing

#6
I also believe that features don't get interesting by the power they give you. Their disadvantages make them interesting, because you have to think about when to use them and when not.

Other possibilities for balancing strafing:
  • (besides the obvious connection to turning rate / maneuverability)
  • Strafe drive fuel automatically regenerates but continuous use will burn it much faster than it can regenerate.
    You can't just "corkscrew" all day and be reasonably safe of never being hit.

    Possible spin-off: There is a minimum strafe / maneuvering fuel level required to turn your ship. If you burn this "reserve" with the strafe drive, you loose steering. Fun. =P
  • Firing the maneuvering jets lights you up like a christmas tree, greatly increasing your sensor signature.
    Ships "see" you from much farther away... and so do their missiles.
  • Your own lasers are less accurate while you are using the strafe drive.

Ixos wrote:Anyways the game you describe has bullets travlling only 200m/s, so ofcourse they are easy to avoid when all ships travel over half their speed.
Capital ship bullets are in the 300 range while fighter lasers are around 400 - 600, a few considerably higher.


Ixos wrote:That's not strafing imo.
Strafing is turning the nose or guns to point in another direction then your ship is travelling. This has no impact at all on other ships guns trying to lead you since your actually not changing the direction of travel (until you hit that main thrustor when pointing in another direction).
And that's precisely how strafing works in X3.
What's so broken about the implementations is that it's magnitude
1. is too high
2. is identical for each and every ship.
There is no "I" in Tea. That would be gross.
Post

Re: strafe firing

#7
Gazz wrote:
Ixos wrote:That's not strafing imo.
Strafing is turning the nose or guns to point in another direction then your ship is travelling. This has no impact at all on other ships guns trying to lead you since your actually not changing the direction of travel (until you hit that main thrustor when pointing in another direction).
And that's precisely how strafing works in X3.
And it's precisely how strafing will not work in Limit Theory, as explained above. It will not change your direction of flight. Every projectile aimed correctly at your flight path will hit you, regardless into which direction you're looking at the time of impact. So, you can lean back and take it easy. :)
Post

Re: strafe firing

#8
Gazz wrote:Capital ship bullets are in the 300 range while fighter lasers are around 400 - 600, a few considerably higher.
Uhm no... If they take 30s to reach 6km their speed is exactly 200m/s.

600m/s would take 10 second to travel that distance and 300m/s would take 20s...


Gazz wrote:And that's precisely how strafing works in X3.
What's so broken about the implementations is that it's magnitude
1. is too high
2. is identical for each and every ship.
That's not the way you discribed it working... The way I describe strafing is that you use your main thrustor = your ship speed and mass is relevant for changing your direction of movement.

I doubt we have to worry about capital ships strafing in LT though after seeing how big and slow moving capital ships seems to be :)

Your trying to balance something and suggesting complex solutions based on alot of assumtions that something will be broken :P
Let's wait until we can see how it works before doing things like that shall we?

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