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Re: Limit Theory @ PAX South!

#106
Skyfligher wrote:FLAT WHY NO TELL ME YOU WERE THERE!!!! You must have dropped by after i did. Gonna be here all weekend though. Also if you posted that you were coming then thats my fault.
Flatfingers wrote:OK, Friday ticket purchased. I'll be there. :)

What time on Friday that isn't before noon would be a good time to desperately try to locate the Limit Theory booth?

(I mean, assuming I can find where to park. Otherwise, I'm just going to turn around and drive back home.)
:ghost:
Warning: do not ask about physics unless you really want to know about physics.
The LT IRC / Alternate link || The REKT Wiki || PUDDING
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Re: Limit Theory @ PAX South!

#110
Talvieno wrote:
JoshParnell wrote:If the LT sign comes out half as good as it looked when I rendered it last week (in-engine), you'll be able to find me easily :squirrel:
Apparently it wasn't that good since Flat got lost. :ghost:
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Early Spring - 1055: Well, I made it to Boatmurdered, and my initial impressions can be set forth in three words: What. The. F*ck.
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Re: Limit Theory @ PAX South!

#112
I'm sorry I missed you, Sky. Apparently you were there a couple of hours before I drove in, and I could only stay for what I think was about 45 minutes before I had to get back on the road.

What can I say? Let's talk in terms of the technical and the personal.

Technically, I was able to see that Josh is, exactly as he says, investigating the extent to which LuaJIT may work. In particular, I want to stress that this kind of investigation has no inherent relationship to gameplay features or graphics. In other words, if Josh isn't posting screenshots of UI or ships or asteroid mining, or of more abstract features such as factions or projects or research, it's because there's no point in porting those things to the new scripting model until the internal testing proves the model is capable of handling actual gameplay features. And there really is nothing to be shown of that performance testing.

I mean, I suppose he could post a screenshot of a profiling session, but thayashlkfsalsadgfasddddddddddd... ! Sorry, I fell asleep while typing that.

Even so, Josh was able to show off basic system generation, plus a placeholder "ship" graphic, because he pushed himself to attend PAX South with a version of Limit Theory that he was uncomfortable showing in order to give us evidence that he means it when he says he's replacing Perfectionist Josh with Pragmatist Josh. When I found the booth (which was perfectly easy to find; it was just my Search skill that had been debuffed), Josh had been coding most of the day to show off LT features even though doing that was taking time away from a thorough analysis of the LuaJIT solution.

Some quick technical notes:
  • I saw a snippet of the Lua code -- it's as clean as LTSL was. If LuaJIT winds up working, it will be a fine modding language.
  • Freakin' garbage collection, man.
  • Josh was not exaggerating when he said his system procgen had produced a beautiful system. Wow.
  • The combination of contrasting nebula/star colors, and the lighting model for nebulae, will make your eyes very happy.
  • Screenshots do not do these nebulae justice. Videos do not capture what they look like in person. Wait till you see this.
  • As Josh was showing me the star system, the exhibitor in the next booth over spoke up to praise it.
That's the technical. On a personal level, Josh was every bit as much a pleasure to talk with as I guessed. He immediately made me feel welcome, and even when my questions weren't very good, he never once shut me down or became annoyed with me.

We briefly discussed how the forums have been for him, and Josh made it clear to me that even the criticisms, as long as they aren't just personal shots, are taken seriously and appreciated. Certainly support and praise are nice, but this forum has been fortunate (and, IMO, inspired by Josh's vision for LT) to attract some remarkably creative posters, even when offering constructive criticism, as well as highly effective moderators. Also, we miss ThymineC's posts. :)

OK, so all this is nice. But I know some here just want the bottom line on "When can I get the Limit Theory Josh promised?" I can't answer that after a 45-minute chat and a demo of a very early work-in-progress version of the newly LuaJIT-ified LT. What I can say is that from what I saw and heard, Josh remains absolutely committed to completing an enjoyable version of Limit Theory. He was enthusiastic, and determined, and incredibly knowledgeable -- and everything I've experienced and seen of software development for three decades has taught me that a programmer with those characteristics will not be defeated.

I don't know how long it will take. I don't know what features the version of Limit Theory that ships will have.

But I came away from my meeting with Josh today with a renewed conviction that Limit Theory will ship.

And it will be amazing.
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Re: Limit Theory @ PAX South!

#113
Flatfingers, that sounds quite promising, though obviously a lot seems to hinge on LuaJIT working out for performance issues.

The protracted development of the game has lead to a disconnect between its technical completion and the evolution of its gameplay mechanics. Have you discussed anything about the future Beta -- for if the game is going to be amazing, the Beta and feedback will be invaluable, indeed probably indispensible, in fulfilling that promise?

Thank you for sharing your impressions.
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Re: Limit Theory @ PAX South!

#114
We didn't discuss any timelines, alpan, for beta or anything else.

Partly that's because I wouldn't have expected Josh to answer. Early on in our conversation, I asked Josh if anything we talked about would be off-limits to post here. He generously indicated that nothing would be, but I assume that a beta date -- even if he could give one right now -- would be be something I wouldn't be free to share. That's very much something only Josh should communicate.

To be very clear, the word "beta" never even came up. I'm just assuming there may be a beta; again, that's something only Josh can speak about.

I know this isn't the hard info you and others would prefer. But I think it's clear I didn't make the trip to PAX to question Josh in any kind of adversarial or even purely objective way. As I said, Josh's demeanor and what little was visible of the current LT was sufficient to give me confidence that he's committed to delivering a Real Game, and that's what I've reported... but that was already my default belief. So it's entirely right to assess the value of my comments accordingly.
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Re: Limit Theory @ PAX South!

#119
Flat, I believe you were one of the backers who had access to the prototype. Can you tell us more about the demo that Josh had running and possibly how it would compare with the prototype from 2012? I'd like to hear about general gameplay, UI, and anything else that you believe is worth mentioning.

Edit: Thanks for taking the time to make a detailed post, it's some of the best LT info I've heard in a year or more.
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