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Resource Gathering

#1
Incoming barrage of questions :lol:

What will be the extent of resource gathering in the game?
Will there just be surface mines and asteroid mining ships?
Can you build mines on really large asteroids?
Can you tow asteroids to a planet or station where they will be mined quickly by a fleet of ships?
Can you drop them into specially designed basins on a planet so they can be dismantled and smelted on the spot?
After you core out an asteroid, can you convert it into a space station?
What other things can you gather in the game besides metal?
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Re: Resource Gathering

#3
Owls can't fly in the atmosphere of an asteroid. So I'm going to rule that out. I think mining lasers were confirmed as a 2in1 mix between a tractor beam and a laser. You could nuke an asteroid and tractor beam it up too, if I'm not thinking of something else and completely spacing. I hope there are also drones/npc GATHER THIS FOR ME people, because mining would be boring, and eventually you need something faster for income.

We know there has to be some depth, because:

You are a Miner. You can spot the shimmering reflection off of asteroids a lightyear away. You know the color and composition of each and every raw ore that the generous galaxy provides. In the deepest, darkest corners of space, you harvest that which will become warheads, turrets, and even ships. You are the very heart that pumps blood through the arteries of the universe. You create the universe.
-Keon-

(I don't have any funny quotes to put here yet. Somebody say something funny.)
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Re: Resource Gathering

#5
I imagine it wont just be metal ores, hopefully we can collect /trade other resources such as:
Food and water
Gases (hagridden, oxygen) from gas giants
Other minerals
Crystals?
Uranium
Luxury items (could be unique to planets)

This is all speculation but still it would be cool

p.s. there are gas giants and moons aren’t there?
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Re: Resource Gathering

#6
ah now this is the page i can call home. this will more likely than not be the soul of the game for me. but lads (and lasses out there) your thinking small. I want to mine that asteroid for all its worth gather the ores on my ship and store that ore for trading or building new components (or repair my ship if i have the tools at had to do so). my dream ship would be a mobile processing frigate surrounded by automated guardian drones. ah yes this could verywell be the start of something wonderful.
If I've rambled and gone off topic im sorry but i tend to be long winded as you might notice if you stumble across my other post XD. thanks for reading.
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Re: Resource Gathering

#7
I would also (assuming that you can use gathered resources to do 'stuff' like build your own ships) love to be able to purchase a fleet of mining ships, crewed by NPC pilots that go an do the mining for you so that you can focus more on trading, infrastructure and making money :)
No Coffee, No Workee
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Re: Resource Gathering

#8
kspn wrote:I would also (assuming that you can use gathered resources to do 'stuff' like build your own ships) love to be able to purchase a fleet of mining ships, crewed by NPC pilots that go an do the mining for you so that you can focus more on trading, infrastructure and making money :)
this is my ideal situation. and if were capable of refining and building stuff from our ships (provided were a larger ship that could conceivably carry such tools).
If I've rambled and gone off topic im sorry but i tend to be long winded as you might notice if you stumble across my other post XD. thanks for reading.
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Re: Resource Gathering

#9
I think gathering resources should have a lot of "layers".
Mining out an asteroid with a laser might be fun for a while, but after some time it gets tedious.

The options I'd like to propose for mining gameplay are:
    • Mining an asteroid manually. Lasers/drills would work for all materials.
    • Hiring crew and creating miner ships. These ships would be short range and would drop off their ores at a large transporter, or they would unload at a warehouse in sector
    • Hiring an NPC who has his own mining ship.
    • Building a mine on site. Constructing something should need materials (eg Settlers), not just a building package (eg X3)
    • Building a mine at another location and towing it to the right location
    • Offer a high price for materials and see neighbouring factions organise themselves to feed your need.
Each method would have up- and downsides.

Manually mining:
Would probably be very efficient depending on the skill and eye of the player. But would, of course, require the player. Players not feeling like mining themselves could go for the alternatives. Also, once the player faction is big enough, he'll have no choice but to look elsewhere to get more materials.
After an asteroid is mined out, the player can choose to leave it be, or destroy it.

Hiring crew & creating miner ships:
This would make for a very mobile mining operation that can easily be scaled up. Once there are a few miners mining the same asteroid, there should be a diminished return.
These miners would be hired, starting out low in mining skill. (or pay through the nose for someone who's experienced?) They'll gain experience, and productivity, as they mine more.
The automated mines would offer the highest yield because they "eat" the entire asteroid, filtering out all usable materials. At the same time they also need to process a lot of waste. So while their yield is the highest, their productivity is not.
Crew will always destroy an asteroid after it's mined out. This will save future generations of having a lot of asteroids they can't do anything with. And will at the same time explain why all asteroids in the galaxy are still untouched.

Hiring an NPC with his own ship:
The skill level of an NPC should be higher. Hiring him will also gain you positive reputation with his faction. Depending on your relations, this NPC could be a cheaper option than hiring your own crew. Look at it as outsourcing.
NPCs will also destroy mined out asteroids.

Building an automated mine:
Automated mines are pretty dumb, but very effective. They'll eat up asteroids and spit out sorted materials. Because of the chemical processes involved, a mine can get more materials out of an asteroid than a player, crew or NPC can. But, automated mines take their time. Seemingly useless rocks get heated, crushed and eventually dissolved in chemicals, leaving only the useful materials.
Mines are expensive though. Not only does creating them require a lot of materials, a decent power source and chemical stuff. They also require upkeep.
When an asteroid is processed, the mine isn't useless though! Not at all! It can be towed to another asteroid and start working again. Some advanced constructions exist where the mining machines are equipped with small thrusters. These automated mines can get the command to, for instance, alert you when they've finished eating all asteroids in a certain sector.
Be careful though, automated mines need to be unloaded too! So have a short-range transporter ready that can ferry the materials to a warehouse or large transporter. (Compare it with a forklift loading an 18 wheels truck.)

Buying materials from the market for a high price would see the AI employ the above ways of gathering materials and sell them to you.

Edit: for mass mining in sectors you probably want to be able to flag asteroids as "Mine! Don't mine.". So that AI and miners in general would leave it alone.
Beware of he who would deny you access to information, for in his heart he dreams himself your master.
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Re: Resource Gathering

#11
Hardenberg wrote:Don't we have a mining thread already? Guess it's time for another merge...
I've picked a thread to reply to that's listed in Gazz's overview. But indeed, there are a few similar topics so perhaps merging them can't hurt.
Beware of he who would deny you access to information, for in his heart he dreams himself your master.
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Re: Resource Gathering

#12
I would like to add that to harvest resources in a sector, I think you need permission from the owner/ruler of this sector.

It doesn't make sense that you could empty a sector of resources without having to reimburse the faction having a stake in those resources.

Edit: Perhaps some factions would only give you permission if you're hiring their people to do the mining?
Beware of he who would deny you access to information, for in his heart he dreams himself your master.
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Re: Resource Gathering

#13
Katorone wrote:I would like to add that to harvest resources in a sector, I think you need permission from the owner/ruler of this sector.

It doesn't make sense that you could empty a sector of resources without having to reimburse the faction having a stake in those resources.

Edit: Perhaps some factions would only give you permission if you're hiring their people to do the mining?
I think this is a great idea considering how LT is going to be. Once you mine the resources out of a sector those resources are gone, they wont reset the next day. So realistically which ever faction owns that sector will not want every ship that comes into their sector to be taking their resources. I know I wont want that when I have my own sectors. ;)
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Re: Resource Gathering

#14
No, to be honest, I think it's a horrible idea, and here's why:

On the danger of sounding like a broken record, let me remind you of the genre. This is an elite-style space sandbox game with added RTS elements. It is not a full-blown 4X game, nor a typical RTS game - there are NO winning conditions. Limited resources are used to shorten the time until a single games conclusion, and also to force conflict over them. Neither is desirable in a sandbox environment. To be honest, not even 4x games use finite resources as a standard, they limit by extraction rate.

Secondary, not everyone will go down then "bloodthirsty warmonger with a fist that launches 1000 ships" route. To be honest, I expect the game to break down at that point, both from the gameplay point of view and probably also from the technical side.
Now imagine noob John B., starting out in his ship and trying to make some credits in order to buy a place to call home, or at least a largers ship. He spots an asteroid, fires up his drill...and gets vaporized by some friendly neighborhood patrol craft for "stealing ore". Total hoot, ain't it? If you need a warship to be a miner/industrialist, something is going pretty wrong.

Next up is the problem of limiting resources itself. To be honest, it's not even realistic to begin with. Space is effing LARGE. We've been mining out good ol' earth for quite some time now, and it still has resources aplenty. We haven't even touched one of the neighboring planets yet. If a solar sytem really managed to exhaust its resources, they've either dabbled into megaengineering ("Let's build a ringworld!", they said. "It'll be fun!", they said...) or have been around for a mindbogglingly long time.

Now, if we assume that you can strip a solar system bare within, say, 48 hours of intensive mining. That would mean that basically, after 48-200 hours, your COMPLETE EFFING UNIVERSE will be dry or pretty close to it, as realistically, the factions that are present everywhere will want some ore to build some of them fancy ships of theirs. Even assuming that will only happen in the systems in your vicinity, you're basically creating a migratory path for homicidal, ore-eating locust factions that will bleed newly discovered systems dry to get more raw materials. This may be fun, in an apocalyptical trek of mass murder kind of way, but a sandbox it ain't.
And we haven't even touched the fact yet that some resources will regrow on short order (like, say, food and energy) because it makes no sense otherwise. Neither did we touch the fact that a mined out husk of a star system is no fun to be in, will have totally screwed up prices and, as such, only clogs up valuable map space. And that type would spread...

TL,DR:
Finite resources are unfun and wrong. Limits need to be imposed via extraction rates, not by making them finite. Also, not all factions act like the unholy offspring of Stalin and Emperor Ming, and neither will all of the players. Keep mining a viable option for all players.
Hardenberg was my name
And Terra was my nation
Deep space is my dwelling place
The stars my destination
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Re: Resource Gathering

#15
Hardenberg wrote: Secondary, not everyone will go down then "bloodthirsty warmonger with a fist that launches 1000 ships" route. To be honest, I expect the game to break down at that point, both from the gameplay point of view and probably also from the technical side.
Now imagine noob John B., starting out in his ship and trying to make some credits in order to buy a place to call home, or at least a largers ship. He spots an asteroid, fires up his drill...and gets vaporized by some friendly neighborhood patrol craft for "stealing ore". Total hoot, ain't it? If you need a warship to be a miner/industrialist, something is going pretty wrong.
True, some people will want materials to create their own ships, or just to sell to a faction that needs materials. If you travel far enough, you will meet factions that are hostile. You will probably have to defend yourself. So I imagine people building/buying ships to protect themselves at some point.
Why couldn't a ship just come up to the miner and say "You know you need a permit for this right? Go talk to x at y to negotiate". If roleplay elements get added to the game, why not in the aspect of mining?
Hardenberg wrote: Next up is the problem of limiting resources itself. To be honest, it's not even realistic to begin with. Space is effing LARGE. We've been mining out good ol' earth for quite some time now, and it still has resources aplenty. We haven't even touched one of the neighboring planets yet. If a solar sytem really managed to exhaust its resources, they've either dabbled into megaengineering ("Let's build a ringworld!", they said. "It'll be fun!", they said...) or have been around for a mindbogglingly long time.
I get what you mean. Space is large, but so are asteroids. So mining out an entire asteroid (no matter how you do it) might fuel your projects for a long time.
Big ships would be built in outer space. Sending up materials from the surface of a planet would make such construction a lot more expensive. That's why (even now) people go looking for asteroids to mine.
Any civilisation advanced enough to build starships of a few kilometres in size might go through their resources at a steady pace.
Hardenberg wrote: Now, if we assume that you can strip a solar system bare within, say, 48 hours of intensive mining. That would mean that basically, after 48-200 hours, your COMPLETE EFFING UNIVERSE will be dry or pretty close to it, as realistically, the factions that are present everywhere will want some ore to build some of them fancy ships of theirs.
True, I hadn't thought of this. However, a single system might contain enough resources to build billions huge ships. So while it would take some time for an asteroid to get processed, it could take 100000 years before a single sector would be mined empty.
Hardenberg wrote: Even assuming that will only happen in the systems in your vicinity, you're basically creating a migratory path for homicidal, ore-eating locust factions that will bleed newly discovered systems dry to get more raw materials. This may be fun, in an apocalyptical trek of mass murder kind of way, but a sandbox it ain't.
True.
Hardenberg wrote: And we haven't even touched the fact yet that some resources will regrow on short order (like, say, food and energy) because it makes no sense otherwise. Neither did we touch the fact that a mined out husk of a star system is no fun to be in, will have totally screwed up prices and, as such, only clogs up valuable map space. And that type would spread...
The faction that lives in a mined out husk would probably move. They'd wage war with their neighbours over new resources and living space. Or, they might go about it the peaceful way.
Beware of he who would deny you access to information, for in his heart he dreams himself your master.

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