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War, Conquest, Occupation

#1
A post I read today got me thinking. (don't you hate it when that happens?)

The "Planetary Ownership" stretch goal is due to be reached in the next days but... how does it work if ownership wasn't transferred voluntarily?

How does conquest work?
Let's say you want to annex Afghanistan. (or exchange the government with a puppet regime which amounts to the same thing)
You bomb it back into the bronze age and move your troops in.
So far so good.
In most games you would now spend 3 turns building a factory and the next turn, the country starts spitting out soldiers and weapons, adding to your army.

Enter real life.
You may be able to easily defeat the military force of the country but then you are... well... stuck with it.
A country that resisted the soviet 40th Army for over a decade while initially being armed with a few vintage WW1 rifles.
Occupation of such a country does not generate any profit. It's a huge money sink.


Allowing conquest in a game like LT would be much easier if the player had to finance the occupation afterwards. =P

While technically the planet / system / whatever may be producing useful equipment - even useful equipment that is unique to that location - the task of keeping the place occupied should be enormous and lengthy. Lengthy as in days or weeks of game time.
During that time you would get greatly lowered production output, mysteriously vanishing resources or products or even entire ships, and bountiful acts of sabotage and general resistance.

Now if the population isn't as clinically stubborn as certain peoples on our planet, it will eventually settle down and occupation would transition into rule.


Conquering yourself a galactic empire would be a full time job - and that's without other star nations trying to snag a piece of your pie while your forces are spread thin from uprisings in 2 of your recent acquisitions. =)
Such "uprisings" would very likely consist of ships sponsored (err, I mean reported stolen) by neighboring star nations. (see Operation Cyclone)
There is no "I" in Tea. That would be gross.
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Re: War, Conquest, Occupation

#2
Hmm. Possibilities for sabotage and other merrymaking in occupied sectors.
  • Chance of occurrence would drop "a good bit" shortly after conquest, then simmer for a loooong time.
    Spy missions executed by nearby factions could cause a temporary increase of "unrest".
  • Any ship that docks with a local station has a chance to have a bomb smuggled aboard.
    Probability lowered by internal security / marines on the ship.
    Bomb damages a random ship component during the following voyage. Damage to engines or other critical systems could possibly lead to loss of the ship.
  • While you use the local factories to produce ships with unique and locally developed components, spies would try to steal blueprints for your other components.
    Then you'd have to stop the corvette carrying the Death Star bl... woops. Wrong movie.
    Anyway, stopping the ship might prove a lot trickier if it launches during a...
  • Spontaneous uprising. That's how their press contacts call it anyway.
    "Previously hidden" ships of local design along with random ships of neighboring factions' designs try to drive out the invading infidels.
    Err, the legally elected government. My bad.
  • A space station, mining colony, or other similarly isolated enclave rebels and reverts ownership back to the original faction.
    Ships that are currently docked there have a decent chance of being captured by the freedom fighters.
    I mean ruthless terrorists.
    Will generate a certain amount of damage to all assets in the process and that doesn't count re-conquest.
  • Unrest is bound to attract pirates and smugglers who are looking forward to the resulting business opportunities.
  • Random sabotage events could target
    • Player-friendly NPCs or ship crews.
    • Stored goods / factory resources
    • Space or planetary installations
    • The assets of other factions, which would lower your relation with them since "your" subjects attacked them.
There is no "I" in Tea. That would be gross.
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Re: War, Conquest, Occupation

#4
1. Look for an unoccupied/neutral system
2. Scan planets for habitability/useful resources
3. Establish colony
4. ???
5. Profit!

Isn't an infinite universe with lots of space to explore and expand into a wonderful thing? You go conquer Afghanistan. I'll be over there, looking for the new world.
Hardenberg was my name
And Terra was my nation
Deep space is my dwelling place
The stars my destination
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Re: War, Conquest, Occupation

#5
There are quite a few good points in this post. I like the idea of having to worry about upkeep. It adds a bit of the game Civilization to the game and makes it more difficult the further you progress (depending on route).

While I know this isn't civ, and I know civ 5 wasn't as vast as civ 4, but some of the things that are in that game would lend themselves well to Gazz's idea. Just simple variables from number of systems you own, to how they're taxed/paid, to their beliefs vs. yours, makes for much more interesting play/ownership. It also starts leading towards the ability to conquer a planet by 'buying it out' instead of just brute force and enslaving them.
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Early Spring - 1055: Well, I made it to Boatmurdered, and my initial impressions can be set forth in three words: What. The. F*ck.
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Re: War, Conquest, Occupation

#6
i wonder if i sound childish by saying id rather not micromanage the planets I own... I mean sure its not unreasonable to think of adding in upkeep for planets or weather or not the people are happy with you ruling them...or even how you became ruler in the first place. none of those are unreasonable at all. but it adds a 'reality check' headache im looking at games to avoid rather than have added to the game.

I mean sure if you nuke the planet (protoss style) from orbit for a few days/weeks/ect and then say you own it whoever left will probably follow you for a while then do all thay can to resist you once they have the chance...but if i legitimately rule the planet (by whatever 'right' ) I dont think you should have to worry about revolts every few weeks because union workers dont like the fact that they are mass producing components for warships (because they are a pacifist culture.)

and as far as upkeep is concerned the fact that theres a planet civilization at all would lead me to belive that the plaet itself is repetitively stable in its ability to sustain itself and therefore wouldent need micromanagement to keep it alive. now shipping in luxury/exotic goods from other plantes (via special trade agreements or out of your own pocket) might boost your planets overall 'moral' for a while making the quality/efficiency for a while.
If I've rambled and gone off topic im sorry but i tend to be long winded as you might notice if you stumble across my other post XD. thanks for reading.
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Re: War, Conquest, Occupation

#7
Dadalos wrote:i wonder if i sound childish by saying id rather not micromanage the planets I own... I mean sure its not unreasonable to think of adding in upkeep for planets or weather or not the people are happy with you ruling them...or even how you became ruler in the first place. none of those are unreasonable at all. but it adds a 'reality check' headache im looking at games to avoid rather than have added to the game.
It's not childish. Some people want a finer grain of control than others. Since this is procedural, I can't imagine it being difficult to make this a toggle-able option. Much like the other thread regarding crew orders, that may be a bit more difficult to implement, but micromanagement isn't everyone's cup of tea.
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Early Spring - 1055: Well, I made it to Boatmurdered, and my initial impressions can be set forth in three words: What. The. F*ck.
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Re: War, Conquest, Occupation

#8
Just make it so you can delegate AI. Have the governor you assigned to the planet have free reign and he can try and put down revolts and such based on his personality. That fleet he just built? He is now using it to bomb rebels from the air, is he a diplomat you met a long time ago? He is talking it out and meeting some terms.
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Re: War, Conquest, Occupation

#9
The Hedge Knight wrote:Just make it so you can delegate AI. Have the governor you assigned to the planet have free reign and he can try and put down revolts and such based on his personality. That fleet he just built? He is now using it to bomb rebels from the air, is he a diplomat you met a long time ago? He is talking it out and meeting some terms.
sounds about right
If I've rambled and gone off topic im sorry but i tend to be long winded as you might notice if you stumble across my other post XD. thanks for reading.
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Re: War, Conquest, Occupation

#10
The Hedge Knight wrote:Just make it so you can delegate AI. Have the governor you assigned to the planet have free reign and he can try and put down revolts and such based on his personality. That fleet he just built? He is now using it to bomb rebels from the air, is he a diplomat you met a long time ago? He is talking it out and meeting some terms.
While this might be a bit finer grain control than what Josh has in mind, I really like the idea of AI having ulterior motives. NPC X got close to you just so that you could put him in charge of a planet. And before long? He's using that planet and stealing your resources to build a fleet to take you on.

"The Rebel Alliance is too well equipped, they're more dangerous than you realize." :evil:
Image
Early Spring - 1055: Well, I made it to Boatmurdered, and my initial impressions can be set forth in three words: What. The. F*ck.
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Re: War, Conquest, Occupation

#13
If there is a planetary governor feature then it has to work adequately.

If you consider it perfectly normal to ignore the feature (because it is expected to work badly) then the development time is better invested elsewhere.

Besides, it is generally a better plan to design something like "owning planets" in a way that doesn't create massive amounts of micromanagement. Then the governor becomes moot.
When there is no easy solution to the problem, use your brain and change the problem. =)
There is no "I" in Tea. That would be gross.
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Re: War, Conquest, Occupation

#14
If it isn't going to be possible for AI management of a planet then aren't all non-player owned planets going to fall into the bad management bucket?

I would see a user assigned manager for a planet being just a slightly special case of the normal planetary management in which the manager has a strong association with the user (but not necessarily ironclad, maybe they can rebel if under certain stresses, other factions asserting power and the user ignoring the pleas of the manager for assistance). The user gives some direction to the manager, but then they control it as normal taking those player instructions into strong consideration.
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Re: War, Conquest, Occupation

#15
Gazz's point leads to another point I have been tossing around in my head, but don't know the feasibility of.

A complexity slider, probably set during difficulty selection. This way those who want to ignore the feature have the option to do so, but those that want it, can have it. This would also tie in with the thread about micromanaging your crew as well.
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Early Spring - 1055: Well, I made it to Boatmurdered, and my initial impressions can be set forth in three words: What. The. F*ck.

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