Return to “Suggestions”

Post

Tactical Interface Demo

#1
Congratulations on 100K!!!!

After watching the tech demo on the tactical interface, I am very excited. I thoroughly enjoyed your ideas over the standard drop down menu type. I had a few thoughts though and just wanted to share.

How about some kind of tier system for the radial menu, to allow for more complex commands? We have a lot of ideas here on the forum and this radial menu could be utilized to accomplish most if not all. Here is what I am thinking:

First Tier Radial Menu:

ATTACK -- naturally this would mean engage target until target explodes(possibly some kind of "disable/destroy" option here?) or given other orders.

GUARD -- follow and defend target from any aggressors until aggressors are destroyed or retreat (to certain distance/disengage?) or given other orders.

FOLLOW -- simply follow target (at specified distance?) until further orders given.

SPY -- now this is the same as follow, except that the AI will attempt to evade detection(don't know if possible) but will create a log entry for noteworthy events i.e. where target docks, planets visited, parties engaged in combat(whether aggressor or in self defense) or something to these effects. Maybe customizable to extract only specific information of some kind.

MINE -- this could be a bit more general, for instance point to an asteroid and select "mine" and they would mine it and fill cargo. Whether or not you have a bigger hauling ship or something would allow the npc to drop off a load and continue mining etc. But if you selected say a wreck or pile of unclaimed treasures the menu option would be "collect." Or something to this effect.

CLEAR -- this to alleviate the awkward situation of having to change orders from something you don't want your NPCs to do to something else you don't want them to do.

ADVANCED -- this option could allow for a second radial menu to command things like:

PREPARE TO MANIPULATE -- this could be to let your NPCs know you are wanting to tow a large disable ship or asteroid. In effect, if you had to collectively tow something too large for your own ship to do it, this command would let your NPCs know they will have to pull at the same time as you. Just like "follow" but more of an in unison propulsion than reacting to how far away you ship becomes for them to engage thrusters in order to get back into certain distance from you. ( Hope that made sense)

-Pay or Trade With -- this would allow you to have your NPC transfer credits to a trader and accept the cargo, instead of having to trade yourself then transfer the cargo over to your NPC ship so that you could accept another contract/trade etc. [/color]

***This second tier really could have many different things, and I am sure you have actually thought of many of them. This tier system could also be implemented for each button instead of a second menu. Something like ATTACK->DESTROY or ATTACK->DISABLE.

Edit: Removed color, looked way too fruity.
Last edited by NuttyRob on Tue Dec 04, 2012 4:30 pm, edited 1 time in total.
"The end is always coming, and the beginning will never come back..." --Nutty
Post

Re: Tactical Interface Demo

#2
Love this new interface, but I also have few extra questions about advanced features like NuttyRob.

Is there any plans on advanced hitpoints? Like if I shoot the enemys thrusters alot will they get dissabled? or if I hit their guns, will that gun eventually break and stop firing?
I that case a submenu of the attack command could be applied so that your npc know what to aim for on the enemy ship. That way you could disable a ship or destroy a ship like NuttyRob suggested.

Would also be great to have a way of issuing long term orders, like "patroll the area between point A and point B". Or rules of engagement stuff like "if fired uppon then flee to this base" (which is heavily fortified).
This could be usefull if you have say a couple of miners that operates in a dangerous area of space.

Which also leads me to my next question. What if you have assets in other systems? Will you get a notification if they get attacked while your'e away?
Or maybe nothing happens in a solar system where the player is not currently at? In that case maybe some sort of callculations could be
applied so that they get randomly "attacked" by naboring factions or pirates, and thoose situations could resolve themselves if you have enough military assets in the system.
So maybe a way of issuing interstellar orders would also be usefull. (like travel to this system and give backup).

Maybe I'm getting ahead of my self and you might have a whole other interface planned like a advanced-orders-interface or a interstellar-interface, and this was just the tactical interface designed for fast action.
Post

Re: Tactical Interface Demo

#3
rickisen wrote:Love this new interface, but I also have few extra questions about advanced features like NuttyRob.

Is there any plans on advanced hitpoints? Like if I shoot the enemys thrusters alot will they get dissabled? or if I hit their guns, will that gun eventually break and stop firing?
I that case a submenu of the attack command could be applied so that your npc know what to aim for on the enemy ship. That way you could disable a ship or destroy a ship like NuttyRob suggested.
Both features have been confirmed by Josh, there has also been talk about grouping NPCs and flight formations.
rickisen wrote:Would also be great to have a way of issuing long term orders, like "patroll the area between point A and point B". Or rules of engagement stuff like "if fired uppon then flee to this base" (which is heavily fortified).
This could be usefull if you have say a couple of miners that operates in a dangerous area of space.
I would assume that the more advanced control would have to be done in the top-down view RTS interface.
rickisen wrote:Which also leads me to my next question. What if you have assets in other systems? Will you get a notification if they get attacked while your'e away?
Or maybe nothing happens in a solar system where the player is not currently at? In that case maybe some sort of callculations could be
applied so that they get randomly "attacked" by naboring factions or pirates, and thoose situations could resolve themselves if you have enough military assets in the system.
So maybe a way of issuing interstellar orders would also be usefull. (like travel to this system and give backup).

Maybe I'm getting ahead of my self and you might have a whole other interface planned like a advanced-orders-interface or a interstellar-interface, and this was just the tactical interface designed for fast action.
Things will happen in system you are not in, with the level of detail depending on how far away you get, eventually dropping down to not simulating anything at all, I'd assume that the range at which it simulates events will depend on how powerful your CPU is, and therefore not be a set value for everyone.

Yes there is more than one tactical interface planned, the one he showcased in the latest update and a top-down view RTS interface that he has yet to show us.
Image
FAQ | Kickstarter | IRC | Common Suggestions
Post

Re: Tactical Interface Demo

#4
Thanks Bele, you are correct in all cases.

Also, NuttyRob, I LOVE the idea of "tiered" radial menus!!! My gosh, this game is going to be TOO easy to control if I implement that :) Yes, I love the idea so much. You can select just the basic option, "Attack," or you can hover over it and let it expand to see options like "Until Disabled" "Until Destroyed" "Until Shields Down" "Until Fired Upon" ...and perhaps even further!! "Until Shields Down" expands to "Until Shields at %50," etc... "Until Disabled" expands to "Weapons Only" and "Engines Only" ... !!!

Ahhh...so much amazing potential for epic controllability...yet so intuitive...ah......!!!!!
“Whether you think you can, or you think you can't--you're right.” ~ Henry Ford
Post

Re: Tactical Interface Demo

#5
In regards to what Bele said at the end:

I know you are a fan of the X series, but there always was a problem with the disparity between in-sector and out-of-sector combat. Basically, IS you could destroy some ships very easily because their weapons would not hit you, as in OOS combat, there was not really a miss chance on weapons and larger ships practically always destroyed smaller ones.

Personally, I would suggest very fast moving weapon projectiles to get IS and OOS combat nearly identical.
Post

Re: Tactical Interface Demo

#6
ComMcNeil wrote:In regards to what Bele said at the end:

I know you are a fan of the X series, but there always was a problem with the disparity between in-sector and out-of-sector combat. Basically, IS you could destroy some ships very easily because their weapons would not hit you, as in OOS combat, there was not really a miss chance on weapons and larger ships practically always destroyed smaller ones.

Personally, I would suggest very fast moving weapon projectiles to get IS and OOS combat nearly identical.
I will try to balance IS and OOS as carefully as I can. I may run some simulations to determine the equations used to resolve battles OOS. But I would rather not nerf IS combat just to make sure OOS aligns...I think it's an important part of tactics to be able to dodge!
“Whether you think you can, or you think you can't--you're right.” ~ Henry Ford
Post

Re: Tactical Interface Demo

#8
I personally wouldent mind a LCARS sype setup for a top down display available for fleet control. since wed be managing fleets and several groups of fighters(miners traders pirates smugglers drones...bases stations what have you) having a simple but high-structured interface would be nice feature to have. the first person (ship) tatical looks very well and able and capable but im looking ahead to the large scale where even drag-clicking groups wouldent be possible as you have groups outside of vision that you need to give orders to. and I shamelessly must admit a fondness for shift click orders to Que up commands.
If I've rambled and gone off topic im sorry but i tend to be long winded as you might notice if you stumble across my other post XD. thanks for reading.
Post

Re: Tactical Interface Demo

#9
JoshParnell wrote:Thanks Bele, you are correct in all cases.

Also, NuttyRob, I LOVE the idea of "tiered" radial menus!!! My gosh, this game is going to be TOO easy to control if I implement that :) Yes, I love the idea so much. You can select just the basic option, "Attack," or you can hover over it and let it expand to see options like "Until Disabled" "Until Destroyed" "Until Shields Down" "Until Fired Upon" ...and perhaps even further!! "Until Shields Down" expands to "Until Shields at %50," etc... "Until Disabled" expands to "Weapons Only" and "Engines Only" ... !!!

Ahhh...so much amazing potential for epic controllability...yet so intuitive...ah......!!!!!
The fantasy RPG Neverwinter Nights had some excellent context-sensitive radial menus, if you were looking for examples of things that were possible.

It was a great system, super fast (once you memorised the layout) and made great use of icons as well.

In practice, though, if you had to drill down too far through the radial menus to get to commonly-used options, it could get very tedious very quickly. Maybe some kind of customisation system, that lets you setup top-level shortcuts might help?

Something to consider, anyway.
- The Snark Knight

"Look upward, and share the wonders I've seen."
Post

Re: Tactical Interface Demo

#10
in depth radial menues would be a nice feature for the 'firstperson' tatical options with perhaps a tab set up for a favorites list of commands you rutinely use. and in that same spirit a save of a command que (IE follow and spy on ship x attack if discovered return if they make a warp jump. but compacted into 1 command (insert personalized command name here) for easy access.

but im more interested to see a more...tactical top down command map with tree menus filled with unit information group setups command lines (i ramble on for few more lines adding more and more informational things.) with a bit more complex command overlay for complex maneuvering and control.
If I've rambled and gone off topic im sorry but i tend to be long winded as you might notice if you stumble across my other post XD. thanks for reading.
Post

Re: Tactical Interface Demo

#12
DWMagus wrote:As much as I love easy-to-navigate menus, as long as I can either map a keyboard shortcut or a joystick button for it, I'm happy.
What if once you selected your units, you could press a button like Tab or T or Q or something to open up a quick radial menu, and each of the radial menu options would have a number on them.

For example:

Attack (1)
Follow (2)
Disrupt (3)
Defend (4)

And then Cancel (0) in the center of the radial menu.

And then this would work with the tiered radial menus, because you could hit 1 for Attack and then get a second menu for things like
Destroy (1)
Disable (2)
Back (0) -- Goes to the previous Radial Menu.

This would make navigating the menus faster for people who like a more streamlined RTS style of gameplay and for people who don't want to spend all their time giving orders with the mouse.
Shameless Self-Promotion 0/ magenta 0/ Forum Rules & Game FAQ
Post

Re: Tactical Interface Demo

#13
That's exactly what I'm talking about. Something like that would be perfect.

I can imagine using something like the thrustmaster MFDs with a small LCD modded onto the back to handle something like this, and I would be drooling for more. :)
Image
Early Spring - 1055: Well, I made it to Boatmurdered, and my initial impressions can be set forth in three words: What. The. F*ck.
Post

Re: Tactical Interface Demo

#14
Radial menu with 8 options arranged at compass points around the centre, triggered by right-click (or hotkey, whatever), map each option to its corresponding numpad number key (ie: NW=7, N=8, NE=9, E=6, SE=3, etc., etc.) Map the "back" to the centre button (numpad 5). For radials with less than 8 options, leave blank spaces.

Fast, intuitive, easy to memorise number combos, or to navigate as key positions mirror on-screen visuals.

Something to think about.
- The Snark Knight

"Look upward, and share the wonders I've seen."

Online Now

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 3 guests

cron