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Technology tree ideas draft

#1
Just brainstorming possible technology tree ideas..
might make sense to have a tree that's not so much random, but have the degree to which the technology affects things vary and improve slowly over time with research.

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possible technology

- core technologies
	- energy supply
		- cold fusion
		- arc reactor
		- solar
	- cloning?
		
- combat-related
	- energy shields
	- "missles" (torpedos, etc)
	- lasers, plasma cannons, whatever.
	- combat drones
	- cloaking
	- hull improvements & armor

- travel-related
	- engines
		- ion drives
			- maximum velocities in space are kind of stupid. ships should be able to accelerate for the first half of a trip and deccelerate for the latter half. 
			- some technologies could allow faster acceleration and decceleration
		- warp drives ("faster" than speed of light achieved by bending space around the ship)
		- hyper drives (potentially faster than warp speed, ship slips in to a sub-space dimension to cover more distance at the same speed)
	- natural worm holes?
	- jump-gate creation? (controlled worm-holes)
	- cryostasis? (doesn't work well in multiplayer?)
	- long-range scanners

- mining-related
	- lasers
	- cargo hold
	- short range teleportation
	- asteroid scanners
	- mining drones

- communication
	- distance
		- radio
		- ultrawave (slightly faster than light)
		- hyperspace or warp drones (the carrier pidgeons of space!)
		- instant communication aka Ansible http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ansible aka quantum entanglement
	- encryption
	- language translations
	
- biological-upgrades
	- internal rebreather (breathe harsh atmospheres)
	- babelfish neural implants

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Re: Technology tree ideas draft

#2
Tech trees and research in general imply a game with an end. Something like a 4X game where - ideally - the tech is balanced to let you choose a research direction and use different ways to reach the end of the game.
Badly balanced games let you research everything (which is boring because there is no choice) before the game is expected to end.

Sure it's possible to work with diminishing returns. The higher you go up in the tree, the lower the effect from each technology.
In the end, you're getting no noticeable power increase from research and that's just no fun. Why bother?

It's also required that AI factions research. Dimnishing returns or not, eventually they all end up with comparable technology, making them all the same.

Research is great for short games but doesn't work well for sandbox games.
There is no "I" in Tea. That would be gross.
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Re: Technology tree ideas draft

#3
Gazz wrote:Tech trees and research in general imply a game with an end. Something like a 4X game where - ideally - the tech is balanced to let you choose a research direction and use different ways to reach the end of the game.
Badly balanced games let you research everything (which is boring because there is no choice) before the game is expected to end.
+1
If I've rambled and gone off topic im sorry but i tend to be long winded as you might notice if you stumble across my other post XD. thanks for reading.
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Re: Technology tree ideas draft

#5
I think a research option would be even more counterproductive than one might expect.

Traditionally and at the most basic level, one of the main attractions of this genre is of course kitting out your ship with the finest stuff the universe has to offer. In order to do so, one has to earn the money and find the items in question. That's why you go out there in the first place:
Somewhere, in the vast expanses of your very own little private universe, there's a six-fingered felinoid with russet fur and three eyes* that just happens to have the engine booster of your dreams for sale. And he's willing to trade it, provided you blow up a few of his race's ancestral enemies (who happen to be fun-loving insectoids with greenish carapaces and a penchant for wristwatches*). All you need to do is go out there and find them.

(*=procedurally generated aliens are fun, aren't they?)

However, with a research option, the player potentially no longer is required to interact with (or even give a flying hoot about) these factions. No need to interact with anybody beyond getting basic materials, and even those can probably be mined or manufactured all by himself. Why bother with looking for a better hull when you can research/build stuff that is on-par or even outstrips whatever the local cluster has to offer?

Beyond that, a tech-tree would only make sense if factions actually tech up, which would result in a difficulty creep (hey, how comes that everyone but me has fusion beams, antimatter torpedoes and point-defense from hell?) as well as a unification of available technology (because, at some point, there is likely a plateau where all items are available, equal and/or the numbers get so large that they do funky things to the game logic).
I'd much prefer a more or less static tech level per faction, with the option of getting blueprints for stuff that you want to make for yourself. That, and a healthy spread of tech around the universe, so that looking for a place that sells "the good stuff" isn't something that takes upward of three months.


So, while IMHO tech "trees" are not really beneficial for this game, I'd guess that a list of general tech ideas/visuals and names for them could be helpful, unless equipment in general also gets procedurally generated. And even then, dividing them into certain "types" might be helpful.

For example:
All weapons of the "laser" family of items generate a constant beam with good range and medium damage. Procedural generation could vary the beam color, power, reload time, name and, to a lesser extent, damage and range, but the end result would always be more or less a laser type gun. Whereas a mass driver would fire small projectiles, have less range but higher power and faster reload times in comparison.
Basically, this would allow you to get your preferred weapon behaviour/visuals while still allowing for countless variations of a weapon theme.
Hardenberg was my name
And Terra was my nation
Deep space is my dwelling place
The stars my destination
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Re: Technology tree ideas draft

#6
Hardenberg wrote:So, while IMHO tech "trees" are not really beneficial for this game, I'd guess that a list of general tech ideas/visuals and names for them could be helpful, unless equipment in general also gets procedurally generated. And even then, dividing them into certain "types" might be helpful.
Definitely.
Good technobabble is hard work.
Just repeating the usual suspects like phasers or photon torpedoes isn't exactly creative.
And if they are alien, all the better.

It doesn't really matter what kind of stats they end up having ingame. =P
There is no "I" in Tea. That would be gross.
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Re: Technology tree ideas draft

#7
I hear you, but for some reason it's just not that compelling in my mind. Like Tom said, I think it would be more compelling for a 4X game. While we do have RTS elements, I'm just not sure that tech would add a lot to LT. Although, if we were to allow creation/control of factions, I guess it might make more sense, i.e., tech research as part of factional development.
-Josh on tech research from kickstarter comments.
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Re: Technology tree ideas draft

#8
I get what you're saying about the AI having to also tech-up to keep it balanced (which is solvable)... and maybe this is more appropriate for 4x games.. Though really there's no reason why you couldn't start the game with really advanced races who already have some future tech you haven't discovered. You'd just learn to avoid them until you catch up. Games are more interesting when you fear for your life. :)

There's one main reason I particularly like the idea of engine upgrades over time: as you explore more and more of the universe, it would (presumably) take longer and longer to travel between points and to new places on the map. It'd help keep things interesting to improve travel capabilities as your circle of explored space grows. The alternative you point out of starting with all of the tech could work, but then you need some other way to allow/limit long distance travel.. like, you can't use jump gates until you set up both ends, first.

New engines or hyperspace travel (eg 10:1 distance travelled ratio while in hyperspace), allows you to slowly allow the user to increase their sphere of influence and explorable space.
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Re: Technology tree ideas draft

#9
I will keep it in mind, although, again, my official stance on tech/research is that, to me, it doesn't make a whole lot of sense outside the context of factions. I could probably be persuaded otherwise, but, frankly, we have to draw the line somewhere if you want to play LT! :)
“Whether you think you can, or you think you can't--you're right.” ~ Henry Ford
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Re: Technology tree ideas draft

#10
I don't think a classic civilisation style tech tree is a good idea, partially because it requires alot of careful thought, balancing and design, and partially because it doesn't work well in a game that is unlimited.

What I think would work better is tech areas that you progress through and that get increasingly hard to find or improve.

For example "engine thrust +10%" it can have an almost endless amount of levels, and should be easier to implement. They don't have to be called that but can be given a long list of flavor names like "basic fission drive" or "induced ion drive"

If each level for example takes twice as much time to research, or is twice as hard to find compared to the previous then balance happens pretty much automatically. Going from level 20 to 21 is a smaller step (310%/300% = +3.3% increase), but should come at a great cost. If you want a even steeper curve in the start then level 0 tech can be put lower then 100%, if it is as low as 10% then the first tech level will double efficiency! (going from 10 to 20%).


For a game like this I think techs as a way to promote exploration would be a cool idea. Just like in Star trek where the ships learn many exotic tech, weapons, shield, tricks and lots of other things from alien spieces and foes far away. Techs could be bought, gifted (diplomacy), rewarded from missions or taken by force/salvage wreacks. Other ways of promoting exploration would be scanning ruins or anomalies for tech data.

Finding a high level tech would be very rare, and when you do find someone that have the tech it should be extremly hard to get regardless of means. Some players might choose to explore the universe not to trade material but to trade in knowledge and very advanced ship components. This could also be a big part in the espionage missions, stealing techs, or for those more fond of combat: escorting a defector with the tech out of the enemies nest with their fleet in hot pursuit.
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Re: Technology tree ideas draft

#11
Ixos wrote:Finding a high level tech would be very rare, and when you do find someone that have the tech it should be extremly hard to get regardless of means. Some players might choose to explore the universe not to trade material but to trade in knowledge and very advanced ship components. This could also be a big part in the espionage missions, stealing techs, or for those more fond of combat: escorting a defector with the tech out of the enemies nest with their fleet in hot pursuit.
You can do that without any tech tree.
By lucky draw of the RNG the buflambians possess a hot point defense laser system and some faction 20 sectors rimwards would pay good money for those blueprints.
There is no "I" in Tea. That would be gross.
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Re: Technology tree ideas draft

#12
I do like the idea of some sort of progression in the universe where time does feel like it is slowly passing by.

If you think about the devices you use in your daily life they tend to be developed in generations. The most clean example is the iPhone. As a general rule the iPhone is about the same price when each generation is released. Each new generation is a little better, faster, maybe more features than the one before. When a new generation iPhone comes out, previous generations still on the market drop in price.

The first generation iPhone is still a perfectly capable smart phone. It can still run all the apps that were designed for it just fine. It is when you try to run second, third, fourth generation apps that you risk getting slugginsh performance.

Something similar *could* be done in LT. Every so often a new generation of an item comes on the market. The procedural engine could come up with a name for the generation and what sort of improvements are to be had. Sometimes a generation is awesome and super well designed and will be on the market, repaired, and used long after its production run ended, like the DC-6 aircraft. Some generations will be crap and it is better to stay on an older generation, like Windows Vista.

Different item types will also have different average generation cycles. Main engines could be on a 10 year cycle while other hot items, like missiles, come out with new generation every couple of months.
David -- Proud to be saving the world since 1984
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Re: Technology tree ideas draft

#13
I think more interesting to me than a tech tree would be different tech levels across the generated universe (within certain upper and lower bounds). So the engines created in one system would be superior to another system because they have more skill in that area, same with weapons / shields etc.

This would allow for extra levels of trade between areas, and certain universe seeds that would start you in the middle of a technology backwater meaning you had a hard fight on your hands to get out of "technology debt". Hit the edges of the backwater and straight into a technological paradise and what do you do?
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Re: Technology tree ideas draft

#14
Whilst tech tree's are quite complicated to design well, and balance, the amount of content it adds to a game is immeasurable, especially if points are limited or exponentially harder to gain.

It also adds extra play time and encourages communication, which in turn boosts sales due to word of mouth recommendations.

I really wouldn't write off this idea (best one I've seen on forums so far).

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