Return to “Suggestions”

Post

Towing Cargo

#1
This is something I've never seen is a space game, even though it makes a lot of sense to me.

What if the player could put cargo in a hauler behind them and tow the hauler (you'd need good thrusters, but it's possible) so that even light ships could conduct trade missions?
The obvious downsides of a hauler would be the lack of maneuverability and the ability for pirates to shoot the hauler off, which would also offer different piracy options for the player.

This also means the player could haul disabled ships back to planets in order to have them reverse engineered at a shipwright's or a mechanic's store.

The player could also buy better towhooks that are harder to break etc, unless the whole system would be handled via a tractor beam.

Anyways, it's just an idea that I've always kinda wanted to see.
Post

Re: Towing Cargo

#3
Bele wrote:Depending on how tractor beams are implemented you could theoretically do this, or you could just hire a NPC to fly the cargo ship for you.
But if the NPC is disabled, you might have to tow them to the nearest planet at least.

Leaving them to die would almost definitely net you a bad rep with their faction.
Oh golly
Post

Re: Towing Cargo

#4
Bele wrote:Depending on how tractor beams are implemented you could theoretically do this, or you could just hire a NPC to fly the cargo ship for you.
he might mean something more like todays freight trains that haul not 1 -3 containers but something like 20 ships worth of freight in a single trip. this would allow you to move vast amounts of suff at once. ofc id never do that without a heavy amount of escort.
If I've rambled and gone off topic im sorry but i tend to be long winded as you might notice if you stumble across my other post XD. thanks for reading.
Post

Re: Towing Cargo

#6
I created some sort of helper drones in one of my X3 script projects.
The big ships in the game are quite sluggish and it makes no sense for them to be manually collecting tiny containers.

These drones are very fast but can also fetch drifting cargo containers or even abandoned ships.
When they tow something back to the ship, they become a lot slower.
The bigger the thing they are towing, the slower they become.

It looks believeable and that's super important in a game. =)

Same could be applied to ships.
It would not encroach on the domain of "real" traders because they are more efficient at moving cargo but it would leave the option of retrieving something that is too large for your dinky ship's cargo bay.
What you are going to do with it when you arrive [somewhere] is another issue. If it doesn't fit into your cargo bay, you would need another way to sell it or do anything with it...
There is no "I" in Tea. That would be gross.
Post

Re: Towing Cargo

#7
Gazz wrote:I created some sort of helper drones in one of my X3 script projects.
The big ships in the game are quite sluggish and it makes no sense for them to be manually collecting tiny containers.

These drones are very fast but can also fetch drifting cargo containers or even abandoned ships.
When they tow something back to the ship, they become a lot slower.
The bigger the thing they are towing, the slower they become.
Interesting implementation of the drone concept, I'd really like to see that as an option for the larger ships.

As for the grappling hook/tractor beam, simply ensure that you can only tow things that are (1-2 size classes) smaller than the towing ship. There's nothing wrong with hauling the odd extra container along behind your ship (where it is vulnerable, visible and easily detached *coughcough...sorry, inner space pirate acting up again here), as opposed to having a zippy little exploration craft dragging along an abandoned dreadnought hull that it stumbled across earlier.
Hardenberg was my name
And Terra was my nation
Deep space is my dwelling place
The stars my destination
Post

Re: Towing Cargo

#8
Hardenberg wrote: As for the grappling hook/tractor beam, simply ensure that you can only tow things that are (1-2 size classes) smaller than the towing ship. There's nothing wrong with hauling the odd extra container along behind your ship (where it is vulnerable, visible and easily detached *coughcough...sorry, inner space pirate acting up again here), as opposed to having a zippy little exploration craft dragging along an abandoned dreadnought hull that it stumbled across earlier.
I see no reason not to let a "zippy little exploration craft" drag around an abandoned dreadnought, with the newtonian flight physics it will take ages accelerating it to a meaningful velocity and the same decelerating it, if you don't start working on stopping it before you reach your destination you'll end up slamming a dreadnought hull into the planet/moon/space station you are dragging it to. That's no moon, that's a rapidly descending dreadnought. Oh god, if Josh eventually implements moveable asteroids and seamless space -> planet transition we can drop asteroids/abandoned dreadnoughts on enemy planets. I look forward to LT2 :D
Image
FAQ | Kickstarter | IRC | Common Suggestions
Post

Re: Towing Cargo

#9
also why cant small ships cant move large things they do it all the time in real life called tug boats. they move things 30-60 times their size all day every day.
If I've rambled and gone off topic im sorry but i tend to be long winded as you might notice if you stumble across my other post XD. thanks for reading.
Post

Re: Towing Cargo

#10
Dadalos wrote:also why cant small ships cant move large things they do it all the time in real life called tug boats. they move things 30-60 times their size all day every day.
Precisely. There is no drag in space.
That's why I didn't limit the ability of my drones to particular object sizes.

It's their speed that scales accordingly.
You simply don't want to wait while the little drone tows a big ship to you at 2 m/s. =)
But if you make it a point that your flagship Ambassador of Doom does not chase after cargo pods then you can choose to wait.

People are far too quick with their "impossible"...


It's not even hard to calculate.
The ship designer obviously has some formula for mass/size versus engine power.
If towing anything, you add the mass of both ships and compare it to the towing ship's engine power.
There's your new speed / accel while towing this thing.
That's all I did. (except that I used hull points which were the closest approximation of mass in that game)

You could even use this as a gameplay element.
If cargo bays are external then you could allow to detach an entire cargo bay.
This reduces the mass of the ship. A merchant running from a pirate could release a cargo bay and gain speed through that. If the pirate doesn't want to let the free cargo go to waste and picks it up or takes it into tow, he gets slower...
There is no "I" in Tea. That would be gross.
Post

Re: Towing Cargo

#13
I'm with you guys, in that, if we are talking space sim here- being able to manipulate large amounts of mass in space is not only possible with smaller craft (and therefore engines) but we do it everyday in low earth orbit. Tiny monopropellent thrusters orient our own space ships and space station. So why wouldn't an engine designed to make say a 50 ton fighter/frigate craft do 1,000 m/s be able to push around a 300 ton dead "weight" in space at albeit a lowered rate of acceleration. But really, the rate wouldn't go down so far to be unfeasible until you start talking about several magnitudes higher, thus creating an already in place barrier based on the internal mass/acceleration calculation in game.

I think, from what we've heard from Josh already, he is making a very common sense approach towards mass manipulation in the way of engines to mass calculations. I think being everything procedurally generated will automatically have everything being bound by the same rules as a ship, therefor already allowing us to "push or pull" things around provided the math works. Also, a non-immersion breaking way of manipulating the said containers/asteroid bits/derelict hulls etc would be the most important part. Tractor beam technology is a good fit, considering we are sci-fi here, besides tractor beam tech is in its infancy here on earth but, the theory is sound. Some sort of grappling hook/tow cable with a winch or something can still be viable..perhaps as a low tech for beginner ships until you discover working tractor beam tech or something.

An interesting thing comes to mind though. A physical cable would have to have some sort of tensile strength limit. If one were to start hot-doggin' around towing a load, the cable could snap like a fishing line and that one got away and now you need to repair your equipment. That would be kind of cool and an incentive to upgrade to tractor beam tech.
"The end is always coming, and the beginning will never come back..." --Nutty
Post

Re: Towing Cargo

#14
that last post gave me a mind = blown moment. if everything follows the rules of mass and all things can be effected by it. (just need bigger/more Engens) then im packing a whole ton of tow ships to an asteroid and using it to bomb some unfortunate planet that decides my rates are to high and refused to pay me for my last freight job XD.
If I've rambled and gone off topic im sorry but i tend to be long winded as you might notice if you stumble across my other post XD. thanks for reading.
Post

Re: Towing Cargo

#15
I like how this discussion is going with mass and thrust being important factors in towing things (the whole dreadnought example was quite amusing). Maybe there could be upgraded cargo containers that have thrusters and power sources built into to help offset their huge weight. It would make them much more expensive, but would mean even small ships could pull large amounts of cargo if necessary (they may run out of fuel trying to slowly pull a regular container, though that is assuming fuel is finite). I would like to see some sort of basic system to determine the container's weight based on how full it is. An empty container could be pulled to where it is needed by a speedy little ship, then attached to the back of a larger ship and loaded with supplies. More containers could then be attached behind that one as necessary, which would be much faster than simply having the huge ship fly back and forth. Of course this would become unnecessary after the first load/unload loop since the large ship would then have all the necessary containers, but it would still affect how much that ship could be loaded with and its speed/momentum.

An additional container variant could be one that is heavily armored so that it can survive attacks from pirates without needing to be ditched. It would, naturally, be extremely heavy - even when empty, so fewer of them would be able to be towed while still being able to escape attack/survive long enough to get into range of friendly units.

Edit: just thought of something with the fast ships pulling empty containers: if containers are slow to load/unload, then the large ship could begin flying back into position while small ships wait for the containers to be empty and bring them back to the large ship to begin being filled again while the others are still being unloaded. Efficiency!
Limit Theory: Space Themed Dust Simulator

Online Now

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 2 guests

cron