X3 had an autopilot but wasn't exactly zero player you had to still had to do some things.
Would I be able to play, for lack of a better word, this game with no player interaction?
I would like to set up my 'pilot' with minimal instructions then just watch him do his thing.
Kind of like having my very own ship in a galactic aquarium.
Post
Sun Jan 04, 2015 3:46 pm
#3
Re: Zero Player Mode
This is so simple that I think it's already basically implemented. Hopefully it will be a little more than just an "aquarium mode" though. Being able to see what the NPC is thinking for example would make me sit in front of this game for hours on end (for months most likely).
A good plan, violently executed now, is better than a perfect plan next week.
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In magenta we trust
Post
Sun Jan 04, 2015 5:27 pm
#4
Re: Zero Player Mode
I'd like to see this mode implemented with a floating camera to observer NPCs as they mine and battle. This would make for a great screen saver mode that I'd love to sit and watch for a long time.
Post
Sun Jan 04, 2015 6:09 pm
#5
Re: Zero Player Mode
That's not true if you scripted yourself an autopilot to do those things. =)ruckuz wrote:X3 had an autopilot but wasn't exactly zero player you had to still had to do some things.
There is no "I" in Tea. That would be gross.
Post
Mon Jan 05, 2015 2:00 pm
#6
Re: Zero Player Mode
Every game should have a zero player mode.
Games I like, in order of how much I like them. (Now permanent and updated regularly!)
Post
Mon Jan 05, 2015 2:08 pm
#7
Re: Zero Player Mode
Most games call it YouTubeDigitalDuck wrote:Every game should have a zero player mode.
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Post
Mon Jan 05, 2015 2:27 pm
#8
LT is a bit of an exception because it's just like browsing Dwarf Fortress in Legends mode. Marveling in the absolute crazy PCG can create, flipping a picture book full of Urist. It's not the meat of it though.
Re: Zero Player Mode
I dunno. If you don't play a game for the gameplay, it shouldn't be made as a game in the first place. My biggest issue with Mass Effect and other pseudo-non-linear story-based 'games' - they would simply be better as movies or Telltale remakes. If you have to squeeze yourself through the repetitive cover-shooting or puzzles or whatever, it's just not a good game anymore, and no story can save that. A counterexample would be Half Life or Portal or even Modern Warfare. I enjoyed the gameplay, never knocked out of flow, and it harmonized perfectly with story and other elements. If the game is fun, story is rubbish (Mirror's Edge), it still works; not the other way around.DigitalDuck wrote:Every game should have a zero player mode.
LT is a bit of an exception because it's just like browsing Dwarf Fortress in Legends mode. Marveling in the absolute crazy PCG can create, flipping a picture book full of Urist. It's not the meat of it though.
panic
Post
Mon Jan 05, 2015 3:26 pm
#9
For example, in nearly every fighting game it's possible to set both fighters to AI, and in many racers all-AI races are allowed. Games like platformers and shmups don't usually have player-like AI, so they're excused for not doing this.
But for a game like this, where the players' existence is entirely secondary to the AI, there's basically no obstacle to including a zero-player mode, so there's basically no reason not to.
Of course it shouldn't be the main selling point. But you'll be surprised at how many people like to leave something like that on the TV in the background, and sometimes it's almost therapeutic.
Re: Zero Player Mode
No, that's a one-player mode where someone else has the controller.Dinosawer wrote:Most games call it YouTube
I agree with that, but I meant mainly in the form ofMistycica wrote:I dunno. If you don't play a game for the gameplay, it shouldn't be made as a game in the first place.
It's always a nice distraction to allow the AI to battle it out amongst themselves whilst watching. If a game has decent enough AI that doesn't revolve around the player, then removing the player (or replacing them with an AI) is a relatively simple change that adds a lot, even if only to serve as an "attract" mode of sorts.Mistycica wrote:LT is a bit of an exception because it's just like browsing Dwarf Fortress in Legends mode. Marveling in the absolute crazy PCG can create, flipping a picture book full of Urist. It's not the meat of it though.
For example, in nearly every fighting game it's possible to set both fighters to AI, and in many racers all-AI races are allowed. Games like platformers and shmups don't usually have player-like AI, so they're excused for not doing this.
But for a game like this, where the players' existence is entirely secondary to the AI, there's basically no obstacle to including a zero-player mode, so there's basically no reason not to.
Of course it shouldn't be the main selling point. But you'll be surprised at how many people like to leave something like that on the TV in the background, and sometimes it's almost therapeutic.
Games I like, in order of how much I like them. (Now permanent and updated regularly!)
Post
Mon Jan 05, 2015 4:06 pm
#10
Re: Zero Player Mode
In a game where the player is on the same standing as the AI, how is 'giving the AI the controller' not the same as watching a Let's Play on youtube?
I also strongly disagree on what I see as the implied sentiment that all games should have the player on the same standing as the AI.
I also strongly disagree on what I see as the implied sentiment that all games should have the player on the same standing as the AI.
Post
Mon Jan 05, 2015 4:29 pm
#11
Re: Zero Player Mode
Debatable.Mistycica wrote:I dunno. If you don't play a game for the gameplay, it shouldn't be made as a game in the first place. My biggest issue with Mass Effect and other pseudo-non-linear story-based 'games' - they would simply be better as movies or Telltale remakes. If you have to squeeze yourself through the repetitive cover-shooting or puzzles or whatever, it's just not a good game anymore, and no story can save that. A counterexample would be Half Life or Portal or even Modern Warfare. I enjoyed the gameplay, never knocked out of flow, and it harmonized perfectly with story and other elements. If the game is fun, story is rubbish (Mirror's Edge), it still works; not the other way around.DigitalDuck wrote:Every game should have a zero player mode.
LT is a bit of an exception because it's just like browsing Dwarf Fortress in Legends mode. Marveling in the absolute crazy PCG can create, flipping a picture book full of Urist. It's not the meat of it though.
The results of logic, of natural progression? Boring! An expected result? Dull! An obvious next step? Pfui! Where is the fun in that? A dream may soothe, but our nightmares make us run!
Post
Mon Jan 05, 2015 4:30 pm
#12
... How are they the same?
*rereads posts*
Where am I implying that? Other than the general statement, "Every game should have a zero player mode" (which was not meant to be taken literally), I've explicitly pointed out genres where this is not the case (platformers, shmups) and said they're excused because of this.
If you think I was even remotely implying that all games should have the player on the same standing as the AI, you need to learn how to read.
Re: Zero Player Mode
Works offline, can run for infinity, can potentially be made to play using the game set up, mods etc. YOU decide rather than whoever records the video, doesn't necessarily react in human ways, doesn't have a whiny voice talking over the top of it...Scytale wrote:In a game where the player is on the same standing as the AI, how is 'giving the AI the controller' not the same as watching a Let's Play on youtube?
... How are they the same?
What?Scytale wrote:I also strongly disagree on what I see as the implied sentiment that all games should have the player on the same standing as the AI.
*rereads posts*
Where am I implying that? Other than the general statement, "Every game should have a zero player mode" (which was not meant to be taken literally), I've explicitly pointed out genres where this is not the case (platformers, shmups) and said they're excused because of this.
If you think I was even remotely implying that all games should have the player on the same standing as the AI, you need to learn how to read.
Games I like, in order of how much I like them. (Now permanent and updated regularly!)
Post
Mon Jan 05, 2015 4:37 pm
#13
I disagree though that the other points are relevant, they're merely differences. Where a 'zero player mode' would be superior to true Let's Plays, I don't think the extra effort that would go into making such a mode available (if the game isn't appropriate for it - see below) would not be worth the limited benefit above a Let's Play.
How would you have a zero player mode in a game where the player is not on the same standing as the AI? e.g. such as a game like Tomb Raider.
Re: Zero Player Mode
Not all Let's Plays have voiceovers, but I would agree in the cases where they do.DigitalDuck wrote:Works offline, can run for infinity, can potentially be made to play using the game set up, mods etc. YOU decide rather than whoever records the video, doesn't necessarily react in human ways, doesn't have a whiny voice talking over the top of it...Scytale wrote:In a game where the player is on the same standing as the AI, how is 'giving the AI the controller' not the same as watching a Let's Play on youtube?
... How are they the same?
I disagree though that the other points are relevant, they're merely differences. Where a 'zero player mode' would be superior to true Let's Plays, I don't think the extra effort that would go into making such a mode available (if the game isn't appropriate for it - see below) would not be worth the limited benefit above a Let's Play.
Woah chill. I tried to build into my response that I may be wrong; I should have been more explicit - I apologise. Let me instead rephrase:What?Scytale wrote:I also strongly disagree on what I see as the implied sentiment that all games should have the player on the same standing as the AI.
*rereads posts*
Where am I implying that? Other than the general statement, "Every game should have a zero player mode" (which was not meant to be taken literally), I've explicitly pointed out genres where this is not the case (platformers, shmups) and said they're excused because of this.
If you think I was even remotely implying that all games should have the player on the same standing as the AI, you need to learn how to read.
How would you have a zero player mode in a game where the player is not on the same standing as the AI? e.g. such as a game like Tomb Raider.
Post
Mon Jan 05, 2015 4:58 pm
#14
How would I have a zero-player mode in a game where the player is not on the same standing as the AI? I would either:
A) See if using "waypoints" and/or similar, simple overrides on top of an existing AI would work adequately enough for the AI to playthrough the game, or otherwise
B) I wouldn't. "Every game should have a zero player mode" wasn't meant to be taken literally.
And have a smiley to get things back on track again.
Re: Zero Player Mode
As I said, "Every game should have a zero player mode" wasn't meant to be taken literally.Scytale wrote:I disagree though that the other points are relevant, they're merely differences. Where a 'zero player mode' would be superior to true Let's Plays, I don't think the extra effort that would go into making such a mode available (if the game isn't appropriate for it - see below) would not be worth the limited benefit above a Let's Play.
Don't apologise, it's my fault. Sorry for overreacting - the earlier post seemed a bit attack-y (although I know it wasn't supposed to be) and I took it the wrong way.Scytale wrote:Woah chill. I tried to build into my response that I may be wrong; I should have been more explicit - I apologise. Let me instead rephrase:
How would you have a zero player mode in a game where the player is not on the same standing as the AI? e.g. such as a game like Tomb Raider.
How would I have a zero-player mode in a game where the player is not on the same standing as the AI? I would either:
A) See if using "waypoints" and/or similar, simple overrides on top of an existing AI would work adequately enough for the AI to playthrough the game, or otherwise
B) I wouldn't. "Every game should have a zero player mode" wasn't meant to be taken literally.
And have a smiley to get things back on track again.
Games I like, in order of how much I like them. (Now permanent and updated regularly!)
Post
Mon Jan 05, 2015 5:02 pm
#15
Re: Zero Player Mode
My apologies again then, DigitalDuck, you've got it covered. You were totally right by the way, I should have read your posts more carefully, and double-check the vibe in my own. Keep going!