I've been thinking a little about one of the main potential issues I see with the infinite potential of an LT universe. That problem is this: if I continue flying away from all known areas in a straight line, eventually I'm going to reach systems that no NPC has ever visited. This is both a pro (since it allows exploration and all that) and a con (since there'll be nothing to shoot at and no real danger, environmental concerns apart).

I did some searching to see if anything along the lines of what I am going to propose has been explicitly outlined, but I couldn't find anything except this thread... so I'm going to put it in here. In fact, Zook mentioned it very briefly above:

Zook wrote:Well there is plenty of good reasons : 1- because in dense / cloudy outter space, life is plausible, 2- because it's a good way to give the impression of non-humain life, without going into the classic alien stuff, 3- because it brings several gameplay possibilities (mining, research on biomimicry, quests, can add some danger or challenge, etc), 4- because of the graphical addition. If done successfully, a field of symmetrical not-really-organic-but-not-rocky-either could generate a feeling of exotism.

I'm sure there may have been other posts that Just_Ice can find.

In a nutshell, my proposal is procedurally generated life forms that are created along with the system that are potentially hostile. In many regards my concept is wasps in space, but there are many ways that these things can be manifested.

This isn't really a new idea, just a specific one. They don't need to be created in every system, but they should offer:

• A threat to the player;
• A reason why mapping a virgin system remains a challenge;
• A prize for taking them on (such as the zero-point weapons from Freelancer, though a little more balanced obviously);
• A way to avoid destroying them - i.e. a piece of technology that can be researched that stops them attacking.

The other key component of what I'm suggesting is that these aliens are not standard NPCs. They don't remember you, hold grudges, care about your factions etc. etc. They are simply spontaneous lifeforms that will defend themselves but don't possess meaningful intelligence.

Thoughts?

there will be normal NPC's created until eternity, if you fly further away from the starting point.

there will be "pockets" of civilisation strewn across infinity, leading you to ever new areas to pirate

Yeah... I'm not so sure about that. It doesn't fit with my understanding of generating history prior to the player arriving in the game. If the NPCs are simply generated in random places, how is their history established? How was infrastructure built? Or is that procedurally generated when you enter the system too?

I haven't really seen anything concrete from Josh on this (more Just_Ice bait!). I think we're all fighting with our own assumptions, rather than a clear understanding of exactly how an LT universe will by populated.

mcsven wrote:I think we're all fighting with our own assumptions, rather than a clear understanding of exactly how an LT universe will by populated.

Quoted for so much truth

mcsven wrote:Yeah... I'm not so sure about that. It doesn't fit with my understanding of generating history prior to the player arriving in the game. If the NPCs are simply generated in random places, how is their history established? How was infrastructure built? Or is that procedurally generated when you enter the system too?

speed simulated.

the closer you get to their systems, the more history gets generated for them, leading to a fully developed civ by the time you arrive in their area

josh said that somewhere waay back, i dont remember exactly where and when.

Cornflakes_91 wrote:
speed simulated.

the closer you get to their systems, the more history gets generated for them, leading to a fully developed civ by the time you arrive in their area

josh said that somewhere waay back, i dont remember exactly where and when.

That sounds fascinating. I'd be interested in reading the source

Scytale wrote:That sounds fascinating. I'd be interested in reading the source

Likewise. This clearly addresses my central issue, though I still think something along the lines of my suggestion has utility that's worth considering.

mcsven wrote: Likewise. This clearly addresses my central issue, though I still think something along the lines of my suggestion has utility that's worth considering.

Space whales!

sounds like a funny thing to include, but would likely need a whole new group of algorithms to generate those things....

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mrFoesW ... g&index=14

Update 7 from the 8 minute mark on answers your question.

Cornflakes_91 wrote:Space whales!

sounds like a funny thing to include, but would likely need a whole new group of algorithms to generate those things....

Haha, I love the idea of space whales. Especially if they are:

• Huge and majestic;
• Potentially valuable if you kill them;
• Potentially more valuable if you can befriend them.

Obviously not a high priority for 1.0, but could be a fun post-release addition.

BFett wrote:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mrFoesW ... g&index=14

Update 7 from the 8 minute mark on answers your question.

I'd say it's definitely related, but it doesn't really answer the question. The mechanics he outlines are those I had in mind when I posited the problem above: unless the game is capable of the kind of on-the-fly history that Cornflakes suggested - which I am uncertain of - then the universe will have an ultimate limit on its populated and simulated area.

mcsven wrote:

BFett wrote:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mrFoesW ... g&index=14

Update 7 from the 8 minute mark on answers your question.

I'd say it's definitely related, but it doesn't really answer the question. The mechanics he outlines are those I had in mind when I posited the problem above: unless the game is capable of the kind of on-the-fly history that Cornflakes suggested - which I am uncertain of - then the universe will have an ultimate limit on its populated and simulated area.

It has been stated that the populated area per system will be limited to a certain size. We also know that NPCs are generated at colonies along with other black box items. In the video I linked Josh says that the universe will be generated with a history meaning that the placement of factions, stations, and developed technologies will all be in place for a reason by the time the player enters the game.

So, with that said, why would there be a limit on what happens in a simulated area? Also, Limit Theory could generate systems on the fly while the player is exiting a worm hole. It would be an interesting question to have Josh answer.

BFett wrote:It has been stated that the populated area per system will be limited to a certain size. We also know that NPCs are generated at colonies along with other black box items. In the video I linked Josh says that the universe will be generated with a history meaning that the placement of factions, stations, and developed technologies will all be in place for a reason by the time the player enters the game.

So, with that said, why would there be a limit on what happens in a simulated area? Also, Limit Theory could generate systems on the fly while the player is exiting a worm hole. It would be an interesting question to have Josh answer.

The purpose of what I was suggestion was not specifically for the simulated area, which I agree will have no obvious "limit". My argument is simply that if someone ventures outside the simulated area it would be nice to present them with a challenge. Otherwise the exploring may get a little... passive? Of course, the frequency that you encounter any procedurally generated space creatures should be a setting somewhere (sliders!) as well as their overall aggression level.

mcsven wrote: The purpose of what I was suggestion was not specifically for the simulated area, which I agree will have no obvious "limit". My argument is simply that if someone ventures outside the simulated area it would be nice to present them with a challenge. Otherwise the exploring may get a little... passive? Of course, the frequency that you encounter any procedurally generated space creatures should be a setting somewhere (sliders!) as well as their overall aggression level.

there is no "outside" the simulated area, when you move to the border of the initially simulated area, new area gets simulated retroactively.

so you'll never reach an area which hasnt generated a history

I understand the concept, I just haven't seen Josh mention it. I may have just forgotten. And I don't necessarily see what I'm talking about as a "problem" per se - having a definite limit to "civilised" space may make things interesting in terms of there being genuinely unexplored space to find.