Drakrtar wrote: ↑

Tue May 12, 2020 5:28 pm

Silverware wrote: ↑

Tue May 12, 2020 5:20 pm

Drakrtar wrote: ↑

Tue May 12, 2020 2:57 pm

the REAL question is why haven't any of you big time backers pushed for a Class Action Lawsuit? Like seriously He's ghosted everyone since he made that "pity me" post and quit. You have his name, where he lived and supposedly his school information. I would bet money he's either off laughing it up doing something else profitable under a new name as most white collar criminals do or dead. Either way you'd find out you won't get that source code and be able to stop dreaming for this to be real. I personally have followed for a long time but after star citizen vowed to never back a KS again until I saw proof it was going somewhere stable. I am sad to see this project dead, but I just don't understand why so many people are still happy to be screwed and not go after him for it. Like it's one dude not a big corporation.

Because this is perfectly within his rights.

Kickstarter is not a pre-order, it's an investment, and it may or may not succeed.

Trying to punish someone for running their own mental health into the ground to try and get their passion project across the line, and then having them finally decide to take their health more seriously and call an end to, what would essentially be, a person's code-baby.

Well, that just explains exactly why Capitalism without strict government oversight is evil.

No... that's not how investing works... if you invest in a company you own stock in that company if the people running it bail out they are still accountable to their investors. This is what blows my mind with the kickstarter generation. They ARE legally held accountable for what they promised. This isn't debatable it's law. When you pay someone x dollars to get x work done they promise to do and they do not do it they are legally responsible for that work getting done. It's fraud simple and straight. Sorry you feel like his "mental health" is a reasonable excuse for not upholding his end but A.) That's not how the real world actually works and B.) HE gave himself an out with the promise to release the code yet never has. He is obviously a scammer and it really irks me to see people defend that.

I can't tell if your trolling or serious.. Why would he spend years making daily updates and releasing high quality development videos if he was always planning to just bail with the money?

Also you realize he had employees right? He had as far as I can remember 3-4 people employed during the lifetime of LT's development.

Don’t quote me on this but I think he offered to give money back after he had worked at a stable job. A lot of people on here didn’t want their money back but I can’t vouch for those who solely stayed on Kickstarter. Anyone who wanted their money back by now either got it, gave up, or did do something through Kickstarter. A lot of the “big time” backers on here had a personal connection/friendship with Josh after some point and decided that kicking him after he was down wasn’t something they cared to do.
Now, if someone really wanted their money back and had pursued it, I doubt they would advertise it.

Underworld Ascendant is a game I got burned on. Highly disappointing but it’s whatever at this point. Not doing Kickstarter anymore.

Back for the monthly visit. Source code? No? See you in June....

Drakrtar wrote: ↑

Tue May 12, 2020 2:57 pm

the REAL question is why haven't any of you big time backers pushed for a Class Action Lawsuit? Like seriously He's ghosted everyone since he made that "pity me" post and quit. You have his name, where he lived and supposedly his school information. I would bet money he's either off laughing it up doing something else profitable under a new name as most white collar criminals do or dead. Either way you'd find out you won't get that source code and be able to stop dreaming for this to be real. I personally have followed for a long time but after star citizen vowed to never back a KS again until I saw proof it was going somewhere stable. I am sad to see this project dead, but I just don't understand why so many people are still happy to be screwed and not go after him for it. Like it's one dude not a big corporation.

after six years of working on it he ran out of money.
which is about 2500bucks/month, before anything else.
which is a kinda meh salary for exposing one to the risk of being sued over it.

also, why would anyone go after a case where even under winning conditions nobody would get anything useful out of it?
josh doesnt have the money anymore and likely no assets that could be liquidated to make that money.
and even then, nobody who could see any return on that from their investment seems to be interested in ruining Josh's life over money they seemingly don't miss and for which josh appears to have made a good faith effort to keep up his end of the deal.

Drakrtar wrote: ↑

Tue May 12, 2020 5:28 pm

A.) That's not how the real world actually works

it is, if every involved party agrees to that's how it works.
which seems to be the case for the majority.


i'm always wondering why people yelling "SCAMMER!" with no personal involvement at all come here ages after anything at all happened here.
its been one and a half years since the last events relevant to Josh and the money happened.
why now?
what is your interest in it?

I was going to suggest turning Limit Theory off and on again, but something tell me that would come off as insensitive at the moment.

I haven't been on it a while but I thought I would drop in and see if something interesting had happened since I logged in last. I think restarting the game by the community is a great idea. I'm not a programmer so I couldn't contribute to the effort. I missed the kickstarter by three weeks or I would be one of the supposedly burned backers. If I had backed LT, I would be of the opinion of most of the people on here. Josh did everything he was able to do to make this game happen. I think he tried to go too far. In my opinion, he should have concentrated on putting out a playable but limited in scope game, even if it was less than he dreamed of. Based on the last few updates he posted, I think that was well within his grasp. Then he could have used the income from lets call it LT Light to fund the further development of the game he truly wanted to produce. If that's the direction the community wants to go, I might back the new effort in some way.

Early access?!

Gunther Haldan wrote: ↑

Mon Jun 08, 2020 12:29 pm

I haven't been on it a while but I thought I would drop in and see if something interesting had happened since I logged in last. I think restarting the game by the community is a great idea. I'm not a programmer so I couldn't contribute to the effort. I missed the kickstarter by three weeks or I would be one of the supposedly burned backers. If I had backed LT, I would be of the opinion of most of the people on here. Josh did everything he was able to do to make this game happen. I think he tried to go too far. In my opinion, he should have concentrated on putting out a playable but limited in scope game, even if it was less than he dreamed of. Based on the last few updates he posted, I think that was well within his grasp. Then he could have used the income from lets call it LT Light to fund the further development of the game he truly wanted to produce. If that's the direction the community wants to go, I might back the new effort in some way.

Really, it's a position of privilege to simply have paid for a game and failed to release it. At the time it was harder to understand, but undertaking my own game development journey has opened my eyes a little to what Josh must have felt. The pressure was immense, the stress at times overwhelming, and in the end the disappointment, in himself and the disappointment he perceived from others was unfathomable.

Limit Theory was always a grandiose idea, but that's what I liked about it. Honestly? I wouldn't take back my pledge even if I could. The hope was well worth the monetary value.

The time I enjoyed here, happily and excitedly reading each dev log, watching each video, and discussing things with other community members during active development, probably adds up to more hours spent in some games I've spent close to $100 on. I'd never ask for any money back either at this point. To me kickstarter is investing in ideas, some of which pan out, some of which don't. In the real world there is risk and failure, and unfair circumstances where nobody wins. To assume everything should work out and people are entitled to something after they've put in the time and effort is completely foolish, and much more unrealistic in my opinion.

I myself am super disappointed this game never came to fruition. I would constantly sell people on the idea of it all, of what it could become, and what you could do with the engine and technology behind it. When the artist got involved (can't remember her name right now, and too lazy to find it on the forums), I got even more excited seeing how the procedural engine could work when it came to spaceship designs. The game just felt incredibly ahead of it's time, and the idea of it all made the development time so much fun. It was like thinking about what you'd do if you won the lottery, and I enjoy that kind of thing, probably more than I would buying the things If I ever did win. The minds a funny thing.
note: if I ever did win the lottery, clearly my first expense would be throwing money at Josh or someone to make LT a thing.

I would love to see the community make a game similar to LT, as there are some incredible minds here, but I just can't see it happening. It's such a giant idea and undertaking to get right, which is why I think it has yet to be done. I would be ecstatic if someone proved me wrong though. I'm glad the forums are still around, though they do seem to get less and less frequented these days. =(

I think there are enough people here who could code up the player-facing capabilities of a LT-like game in something like Godot's scripting language. The hard part -- which I certainly can't do -- is the core framework stuff: event communication, AI, and any other features that must be written in a compiled language for performance.

I wonder if there's enough money in the hands of the folks still here to hire Josh to build the core framework for the community version of LT?

This is assuming it would be 1) to our specifications (while of course listening to expert suggestions), and 2) within a fixed time limit.

Flatfingers wrote: ↑

Sun Jul 19, 2020 12:38 am

I think there are enough people here who could code up the player-facing capabilities of a LT-like game in something like Godot's scripting language. The hard part -- which I certainly can't do -- is the core framework stuff: event communication, AI, and any other features that must be written in a compiled language for performance.

I wonder if there's enough money in the hands of the folks still here to hire Josh to build the core framework for the community version of LT?

This is assuming it would be 1) to our specifications (while of course listening to expert suggestions), and 2) within a fixed time limit.

Money is not the problem.
The problem is having a dedicated core team with time and motivation to realise a common vision. Obviously no one in our community has taken up the ball yet and decided to take up ownership by dedication and sweat (no critics implied - I also do not act). Without the core team, there is no project. With such a core team, there may be a project, assuming said core team can stay focused on sufficiently long term (years, if this is hobby and not jobs) and they bring the necessary competences.

Josh did show dedication, vision and sweat. While he showed the necessary technical competences, he was lacking the ablility to deliver - the project management competence. Assuming he did not change, hiring him is only possible in a well organised team where he is actively managed to chanel his talent - probably daily discussion at least initially, and at least weekly objectives and deliverables, with control and sanctions (the latter means that he is replaceable - he will loose the job if he does not deliver reasonably).

Per definition, being replaceable means he is not the only candidate.
As somebody who mananaged small teams (in a R&D environment) in the past: even in Research, it is better to have somebody with a bit less genius, but able to deliver. Of course, the best is a mix in the team (so having people that can manage project and micro-manage the creative geniuses) as ultimately, except in fully academic circles, deliverables are the result - without them, you have by definition nothing but dreams.

well we know he's probably not coming back (and I cannot blame him at all for that). I am still a bit sad that he won't release the source code as although it's unlikely anything is going to happen (with the source code), there was interesting ideas and code behind it and not releasing it feels like a waste. Honestly I don't even know if the source code still exists but I hope the time he put into this game was not for nothing. I think that something should come out of every project even if it's just knowledge if not for yourself then at least for someone else.

At this point I doubt the source code will be released but I hope Josh has a change of thought and decides to release it (it may be gone forever but I hope it isn't)

I am not a kickstarter so I cannot judge his leaving so that's a debate for someone else. I just think everything should be saved so at least someone can use it to learn. Who knows, perhaps someone can create something from the source code.

CRZgatecrusher wrote: ↑

Sun Sep 20, 2020 6:15 pm

well we know he's probably not coming back (and I cannot blame him at all for that).

... Why not? I can blame him for that... He said he would do something and then didn't do it. And unlike the game itself which he truly tried to do but could not finish. All he has to do is go to his GitHub repo or whatever, set it to public, write a one paragraph blurb along with the link and post it here and walk away and then choose to ghost this place. A whopping 5 minutes of effort tops.

Josh, I am truly disappointed in you. You really have no excuse regarding the source code. Talk is cheap, and your words are worthless than nothing at all!

I wasn't talking about the source code in terms of he's not coming back. I meant development of the game (as in he's not going to develop it anymore). I am a little annoyed about the Source Code stuff (you could try to contact him and ask for the Source Code. I can't blame him for not coming back to finish the game but I am annoyed in a small sense about the wasted source code.

In fact can anyone get a hold of him and ask about the Source Code, so this game does not go to waste and even though it was not what we all wanted at least something will be gained (perhaps an amazing open source project I can help out with or just an interesting engine).