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Re: The End

#230
Victor Tombs wrote:
Tue Dec 25, 2018 5:56 pm
Yes, it would be nice to listen to the OST for Limit Theory. From what I've heard of Francois Jolin's music I don't think I will be disappointed. :D :angel:
I agree, Victor.
I was thinking about the LT music recently, and had to wonder what will happen with it, or shall it forever be available only on the Youtube Vids?
YAY PYTHON \o/

In Josh We Trust
-=326.3827=-
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Re: The End

#231
133 days since "The end" post. Has anyone heard anything from Josh? What's he up to, what's he doing? Releasing the codes isn't going to do me any favors I couldn't code my way out of a wet paper sack.

But I am curious as to what is actually going on. Is he still alive, is he still on planet Earth? Is he still releasing the code for others? How about this, every 134 days set aside 5 minutes to update the community and your investors as to what is actually happening. Fingers crossed!
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Re: The End

#232
TheoryOfLimitations wrote:
Fri Feb 08, 2019 8:21 pm
133 days since "The end" post. Has anyone heard anything from Josh? What's he up to, what's he doing? Releasing the codes isn't going to do me any favors I couldn't code my way out of a wet paper sack.

But I am curious as to what is actually going on. Is he still alive, is he still on planet Earth? Is he still releasing the code for others? How about this, every 134 days set aside 5 minutes to update the community and your investors as to what is actually happening. Fingers crossed!
The project is dead, and honestly, I kinda don't expect to ever hear from him on here again.
°˖◝(ಠ‸ಠ)◜˖°
Toba - A Development Dump
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Re: The End

#233
My time in this community may have been short, and I haven't participated much, but I was looking forward to LT being finished...honestly, I don't know how close it was. I have little to no experience coding, or game design in general, but from what I saw, it looked so close...It, of course, would not be worth you losing your sanity over, and you are right that a human is only capable of so much. Thank you for trying, that's all we could rightfully ask. I wish I could have been more involved with this project, with this community. Unfortunately, though, we all have our fair share of troubling times, and mine have been in this period. Back in October of 2017 was my last post here, almost two years ago. A lot has happened since then that has kept me in a state where I didn't even think to come here more, to be part of this community that I likely would have greatly enjoyed being a part of. I could still try, but with the death of the thread holding us together, all but the tightest groups will dissolve and I've never been good at becoming part of an already tight group.

I hope your life goes well, Josh, and I hope that once you release the source code, those of us who can will be able to work on LT and carry it to the finish line like you couldn't do alone. And nothing is wrong with that - you proclaimed that you could move a mountain without realizing its weight, and we asked you to do it anyway. You did your best, that's all that matters.
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Re: The End

#234
I will say this, if Josh gets hired by any game development company, he will ensure they have the best looking UI and procedural skies of any game on the market. Josh sure knew how to make beautiful imagery even if he couldn't code a video game. And for that, I give him props.

I do hope we are able to see his work in a future game. Limit Theory was simply stunning.
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Re: The End

#236
Talvieno wrote:
Sat Dec 08, 2018 11:27 am
Bigger grain of salt than the rest of this post! I have no direct confirmation of exactly what went on, and only able to assemble a picture of what happened based on what I saw in the push/pull logs and the conversations I'd held with both of them much earlier this year.

Adam and Josh are two entirely different types of programmers. Josh is a graphics programmer. Adam is an engine programmer. Josh just wants things to go fast, even at the expense of physics - he even turned off physics collisions entirely for most of the dev videos! Adam, however, approaches it from a different standpoint: to him, physics are important. Second, Adam likes to use pre-built libraries and tools, whereas Josh wants to make his own. This was a common theme throughout LT's production cycle.

Some of the first major stuff Adam did with Limit Theory was all about engine work. He found different resources online and tried putting them into LT, with the goal and making collision detection work "decently enough". And it did! Unfortunately, collisions were still... strange. Collision detection does not a physics engine make, and if you hit an asteroid, there's no telling what direction you would've bounced off of it. Without a physics engine, you can definitely tell when one object collides with another object (for example, shooting a weapon at an asteroid), but if you want to model a ship hitting an asteroid, or two ships colliding, or semi-realistic docking? You need a physics engine too. This is something that I imagine bugged Adam a fair deal, seeing as he's an engine coder.

Enter the Bullet Physics Library: a modular, pre-built physics engine that you could plop down into the custom engine of your choice. It's built to be generalized and accessible, and, as is a common theme in this post, generalization and accessibility do not play well with performance. Adam started implementing it back in... June? July? Somewhere around then, I think. About that time most other forward progress on the game seemed to grind to a halt. I don't know anything specific about what happened, so again - grain of salt - but I get the feeling that Josh found that Bullet Physics played havoc with LT's framerate - especially with the large number of ships and asteroids that Josh wanted to have.

And what does Josh do when he finds out the engine is running too slowly for what he wants? He doesn't change his requirements to suit the new restrictions. He refactors.


Unfortunately, I've not gotten to hold a conversation with him in a long time, so I can't do much more than speculate about what went on between him and Adam, and why Adam left. I don't think speculating about that sort of thing will help anyone.
Hooooboy. Be careful with that there speculation.
Adam likes to use pre-built libraries and tools, whereas Josh wants to make his own. This was a common theme throughout LT's production cycle.
Nooope. I like building things myself nearly as much as Josh. Just looking at the logs I can see how that might have come across though.
what went on between him and Adam, and why Adam left
Let me be clear when I say working with Josh on LT was some of the most fun I've ever had working on games. Josh is simultaneously one of the best programmers I've ever worked with and one of the best humans I've ever worked with. I'd go out of my way to work with him in the future.

I left because that was was the plan from beginning. Blizzard just kinda showed up at the right time by coincidence. Josh was incredibly frugal with the Kickstarter money (see the part about best human). Anyone who thinks he got some free money and walked away struggles with arithmetic. When I left my previous studio and we started chatting he decided to change tactics and use what was left to hire me for a year and try like hell to ship the game. And try like hell we did. We did our best to be purely practical and make decisions based what would get LT to the finish line, not based on what we felt was beautiful code. The whole time I was there it was definitely pragmatic Josh.

That's why you saw us pulling in libraries like Bullet and OpenVDB. These were things we both believed would help actually finish LT (I think it was even Josh's idea to just pull in a library rather than trying to turn the rudimentary custom physics we had into a shipping quality system). Bullet didn't turn out to be amazing, but it would have done the job. Looking back I still think that was the right call, even though I would have much rather written our own.

At the end of the day there was just too much work and not enough time, that's all.
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Re: The End

#238
AdamByrd wrote:
Wed Feb 13, 2019 12:50 am
Hooooboy. Be careful with that there speculation.
Exactly why I said I wasn't going to touch it. :D I'd heard people speculating though and wanted to make a clear "don't go there, that's not helpful" statement.
AdamByrd wrote:
Wed Feb 13, 2019 12:50 am
Adam likes to use pre-built libraries and tools, whereas Josh wants to make his own. This was a common theme throughout LT's production cycle.
Nooope. I like building things myself nearly as much as Josh. Just looking at the logs I can see how that might have come across though.
My mistake then. :) I do wish I'd had more contact with you guys so I had a better understanding of things, but it is what it is. Everyone was just doing the best they could really.
AdamByrd wrote:
Wed Feb 13, 2019 12:50 am
Anyone who thinks he got some free money and walked away struggles with arithmetic.
This is well said. :D
That's why you saw us pulling in libraries like Bullet and OpenVDB. These were things we both believed would help actually finish LT (I think it was even Josh's idea to just pull in a library rather than trying to turn the rudimentary custom physics we had into a shipping quality system). Bullet didn't turn out to be amazing, but it would have done the job. Looking back I still think that was the right call, even though I would have much rather written our own.

At the end of the day there was just too much work and not enough time, that's all.
This explains a fair deal. I had a couple talks where Josh where he mentioned "Adam found X library so we're going to use that" but I don't think he ever mentioned that he was the one wanting it in the first place.


I do wish you luck with Blizzard. They seem to be prepping for layoffs and I sincerely hope you aren't included in it. :?
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