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Re: Tuesday, June 27, 2017

#82
davidparadis wrote:
Mon Jul 17, 2017 10:11 am
I think Adam said Josh was going to be busy until at least the end of this week.

So I'm hoping for either a weekend log or one early next week. I'll start to panic if it get to next weekend :)
While I really don't care so much, being enjoying some time in greece, I still find this is a symptom of bad project management. In my hopes to aid Josh compensate his lack of formal studies as he dropped out of university to make some crazy IT-project:

If you promise biweekly updates, you do them, or you annouce in a previous update that the next one will be missing due to vacation/absence/whatever. But you don't just make them late - or worse, silently not make them at all.
If you are not able to have this discipline, you can (MUST) delegate to somebody else - Talv in discussion with the team being one of the possible choice. Note that the updates may be very short, though.
They just MUST ALWAYS BE ON TIME! :evil:
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Re: Tuesday, June 27, 2017

#86
Flatfingers wrote: Isn't it funny that one of the most crucial features for Limit Theory's AI -- delegation -- turns out to be one of the things its developer finds very difficult?
Exactly this.
The irony is not lost on the forums.
More people want exploding kittens than exploding ships. Somehow, this makes me happy.
- credits go to dwmagus
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Re: Tuesday, June 27, 2017

#87
I've offered several times to do the KS updates for him. I can't really do the biweekly code-related updates (unless "this is where everybody is, and sort of what they've been working on" is okay), but I can at least summarize them for Kickstarter. He doesn't seem very keen on the idea. :P I'm not sure if it's because he's worried I'll say something I shouldn't, or won't say something "the right way", or just a stubborn determination to do everything himself... maybe all of the above. :lol: He's just insistent that he looks it over and adds his own personal touches, which I think I can completely understand. This is his baby, after all.

I agree completely with CSE, though. Updates should always be on time. This isn't something I consider "acceptable" - at least from a community interaction standpoint. I really wish he'd delegate a little more because it's not right to skip/miss updates like this. I'd gladly take care of them for him (one might argue it could even be part of my job description).
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Re: Tuesday, June 27, 2017

#88
I'm new here, so I'm not fully acquainted with the history and the community norms, but I to have say: as both a player and a developer I disagree with the sentiment that updates must be on a perfectly timed schedule or that the developer is screwing up by letting them slip.

At the end of the day we're all here because of the game. The updates are a great way to engage the community, build excitement, and let people know how things are progressing. I'm not trying to diminishing their value. But shipping a game is the single hardest thing I've ever done (or finished but not technically shipped because of management shenanigans twice as the case may be. Ugh.). The more your own fiery passion drives you, the more carefully you have to manage burnout. It's easy to gloss over and say, "it's your job to make updates, just get it done," but that also glosses over the fact that there's a human on the other end of that computer. Mental health is a massive problem in our industry and it's so much more subtle and constant than people (developers included) realize. Often it really is the right choice to let minor things slip in order to manage the pressure. Every developer that talks about burnout talks about how they worked way too hard for years and the negative effects that had on the rest of their lives. We're talking about serious, measurable effects: anxiety attacks, depression, social isolation, leaving the industry. And it's not this obvious process. It's a slow descent where you look back years later and are horrified by how unhealthy your career has become and you have to spend years climbing back out of that hole.

I don't mean to be all doom and gloom here, or to even imply that there is an issue. But the fact is we're always circling this drain and I can't overstate the importance of paddling away from it a little bit here and there when you're up near the top where the water is still moving slow.

Regarding delegation, I believe that's an intentional decision. I think Josh enjoys providing updates and interacting with the community and it's something he looks forward to. We take pride in our work and being able to share that pride and excitement does a lot for morale. Being able to look back at a history of challenges overcome helps keep you going. I think you lose a lot of that if someone else writes it. It also means you try to write those updates when you're in a good headspace. They're going to be around for a long time.

On Limit Theory we've been making awesome progress for the past couple of months. We've been making sweeping structural changes that are boosting productivity across the board and paving the way for the rest of development. We've been picking up all these disparate pieces, molding them into their final form, and putting them together into something remarkable. And we've been slogging through some of the more mundane details necessary to ship this bad boy. We're incredibly excited about the direction things are moving and in that excitement this detour just sort of snuck up on us.

And keep in mind Josh isn't off sipping margarita's on the beach. He's volunteering 3 weeks of his time to mentor students. Something we desperately need in this industry, because frankly, the object-oriented, pile-of-shitty-abstractions, i-don't-know-what-hardware-is bullshit that gets taught in schools simply isn't working. And it's not easy work. There's a 7-foot whiteboard here full of lesson plans and notes for one day of teaching.

In my personal opinion, what matters most is that actual development is moving forward in healthy way. And on that front we're killing it. As much as I like updates, if I had to choose between perfectly timed and managed updates and the health of another human, well...
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Re: Tuesday, June 27, 2017

#90
Very well put, Adam. :)
AdamByrd wrote:
Tue Jul 18, 2017 10:57 am
In my personal opinion, what matters most is that actual development is moving forward in healthy way. And on that front we're killing it. As much as I like updates, if I had to choose between perfectly timed and managed updates and the health of another human, well...
Well, of course, yes. I'm not saying that Josh should overstep what he's capable of or drive himself crazy trying to get updates out. :) That was why my comments centered around delegation. While Josh may be up to his neck in work, it's my job to interact with the community as CM and keep people up to speed/keep the community alive and strong (note, though: this community has only a fraction of the people it once did). Scheduled updates are a valuable thing and a massive boon to a community. Without them, excitement lessens considerably. People are creatures of habit; if they get used to checking weekly,r bi-weekly, or even monthly for an update, they'll continue to do so. If they don't know when to expect the next update, they'll probably check frequently to begin with, and then less as their interest wanes. "It'll be there eventually, and watching for it won't make it come any faster."

I could say it's not very professional to skip updates like this, but realistically, a large source of Josh's charm is that he doesn't act as unapproachably professional as many other people out there. :P Unfortunately, this also makes people worried about him (and his health) when he suddenly disappears.

This is a very good point, though:
AdamByrd wrote:
Tue Jul 18, 2017 10:57 am
Regarding delegation, I believe that's an intentional decision. I think Josh enjoys providing updates and interacting with the community and it's something he looks forward to. We take pride in our work and being able to share that pride and excitement does a lot for morale. Being able to look back at a history of challenges overcome helps keep you going. I think you lose a lot of that if someone else writes it. It also means you try to write those updates when you're in a good headspace. They're going to be around for a long time.
At any rate, I've already posted in the Kickstarter comments that updates will be delayed until after he finishes with the coding camp, so I figure the problem is "patched" as near as I can make it, and I'm not particularly worried. We know why he's missing, and we know when he'll be back. I'd say that's all anyone should ask for - I just wish I'd been able to announce it ahead of time so that people had expected it. :)
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