So, remember how we talked about how space in Limit Theory needs some amount of friction so that ships are easier to control? And science said that was goofy because there's no friction in a vacuum?
Well.
Today I see there's a story suggesting that space does, in fact, express a friction-like effect, even as a near-perfect vacuum. I'm not sure that applicability to particles means applicability to macro-level objects like spaceships.
Even so, it's a neat finding. Maybe in the default Joshverse, this effect is simply dialed up to 11.
http://www.sciencealert.com/physicists- ... ect-vacuum
Post
Mon Feb 27, 2017 5:06 pm
#2
Re: Friction In a Vacuum
Very neat find, however it's not actually a friction like force, it's a loss of momentum due to a loss of mass when the decaying atom emits a photon.
The Article wrote:"[W]e have shown that, yes, a decaying atom sees a force resembling friction," the team concludes in their paper. "However, this force is a change in momentum due to a change in internal mass energy, and is not connected to decelerated motion."
<Cuisinart8> apparently without the demon driving him around Silver has the intelligence of a botched lobotomy patient ~ Mar 04 2020
console.log(`What's all ${this} ${Date.now()}`);
console.log(`What's all ${this} ${Date.now()}`);
Post
Mon Feb 27, 2017 5:34 pm
#3
It seems though that sadly the object doesn't actually see a decreased velocity, and that's where the rub is.
Thanks Flat!
Re: Friction In a Vacuum
No: it is a force by definition from Newton's second law. A change in momentum, even if it is to its mass and not its velocity, does imply a force is being exerted somewhere.Silverware wrote:Very neat find, however it's not actually a friction like force, it's a loss of momentum due to a loss of mass when the decaying atom emits a photon.
The Article wrote:"[W]e have shown that, yes, a decaying atom sees a force resembling friction," the team concludes in their paper. "However, this force is a change in momentum due to a change in internal mass energy, and is not connected to decelerated motion."
It seems though that sadly the object doesn't actually see a decreased velocity, and that's where the rub is.
Thanks Flat!
Post
Tue Feb 28, 2017 2:04 am
#4
Of the many things I might say, none are constructive. Moving on.
Re: Friction In a Vacuum
I see. My calling it a "friction-like effect" in what was clearly nothing more than a reference to an interesting bit of science loosely connected to Josh's design of Limit Theory was insufficiently precise for you, and required correction.Silverware wrote:Very neat find, however it's not actually a friction like force, it's a loss of momentum due to a loss of mass when the decaying atom emits a photon.
The Article wrote:"[W]e have shown that, yes, a decaying atom sees a force resembling friction," the team concludes in their paper. "However, this force is a change in momentum due to a change in internal mass energy, and is not connected to decelerated motion."
Of the many things I might say, none are constructive. Moving on.
Post
Tue Feb 28, 2017 3:23 am
#5
Re: Friction In a Vacuum
Silver is incorrect though. Silver wrong about physics? never! It's a phenomenon that changes momentum, and its magnitude is proportional to the object's velocity, ergo friction force
Thanks, interesting read
Thanks, interesting read
Warning: do not ask about physics unless you really want to know about physics.
The LT IRC / Alternate link || The REKT Wiki || PUDDING
The LT IRC / Alternate link || The REKT Wiki || PUDDING
Post
Tue Feb 28, 2017 4:43 am
#7
Re: Friction In a Vacuum
I just realized something.
This is exactly how I justify my "spatial turbine" in Kerbal Future.
From my worldbuilding notes:
Maybe it's not so technobabble after all.
Holy crap.
This is exactly how I justify my "spatial turbine" in Kerbal Future.
From my worldbuilding notes:
Spoiler: SHOW
Holy crap.
Post
Tue Feb 28, 2017 11:05 am
#8
This isn't a correction, just a remark
Re: Friction In a Vacuum
This is now well off-topic from Flat's post, but interestingly frictional force is only properly proportional to velocity in abstraction, usually as an 'ideal viscous dissipation'.Dinosawer wrote:Silver is incorrect though. Silver wrong about physics? never! It's a phenomenon that changes momentum, and its magnitude is proportional to the object's velocity, ergo friction force
Thanks, interesting read
This isn't a correction, just a remark
Post
Tue Feb 28, 2017 4:13 pm
#9
Re: Friction In a Vacuum
Those responsible for correcting the corrections to the original correction, have been sacked.
The Management (Mrs.)
The Management (Mrs.)
Post
Tue Feb 28, 2017 4:15 pm
#10
As you are losing mass and that mass keeps it's old momentum, then the momentum is just being transferred to the now missing mass.
If Total Velocity, Mass, and Momentum all remains the same in the system, has it really experienced a force?
Re: Friction In a Vacuum
If it's also proportional to the size of the lost extra mass, then is it actually a force?Dinosawer wrote:Silver is incorrect though. Silver wrong about physics? never! It's a phenomenon that changes momentum, and its magnitude is proportional to the object's velocity, ergo friction force
Thanks, interesting read
As you are losing mass and that mass keeps it's old momentum, then the momentum is just being transferred to the now missing mass.
If Total Velocity, Mass, and Momentum all remains the same in the system, has it really experienced a force?
<Cuisinart8> apparently without the demon driving him around Silver has the intelligence of a botched lobotomy patient ~ Mar 04 2020
console.log(`What's all ${this} ${Date.now()}`);
console.log(`What's all ${this} ${Date.now()}`);
Post
Tue Feb 28, 2017 4:26 pm
#11
Re: Friction In a Vacuum
Given that we're speaking about a force on the atom, the system is the atom, not the atom and the photon together, so yes, it does experience a forceSilverware wrote: If it's also proportional to the size of the lost extra mass, then is it actually a force?
As you are losing mass and that mass keeps it's old momentum, then the momentum is just being transferred to the now missing mass.
If Total Velocity, Mass, and Momentum all remains the same in the system, has it really experienced a force?
Warning: do not ask about physics unless you really want to know about physics.
The LT IRC / Alternate link || The REKT Wiki || PUDDING
The LT IRC / Alternate link || The REKT Wiki || PUDDING
Post
Tue Feb 28, 2017 5:31 pm
#12
Re: Friction In a Vacuum
This is a pointless deflection. The "system" is the atom, not the atom plus the lost photon. There is a change in momentum in the "system", and hence a force.Silverware wrote:If it's also proportional to the size of the lost extra mass, then is it actually a force?Dinosawer wrote:Silver is incorrect though. Silver wrong about physics? never! It's a phenomenon that changes momentum, and its magnitude is proportional to the object's velocity, ergo friction force
Thanks, interesting read
As you are losing mass and that mass keeps it's old momentum, then the momentum is just being transferred to the now missing mass.
If Total Velocity, Mass, and Momentum all remains the same in the system, has it really experienced a force?