Dave Bleja has posted a great article at Gamasutra on Designing an Alien Alphabet.
He discusses the importance of keying the look of an invented alphabet to the nature of the culture (and its display technologies) that uses the alphabet. He also provides several good resources for ideas when starting to design such an alphabet. It really is an excellent piece of writing for any visual creator of new worlds.
It's not 100% applicable to Limit Theory, in which there could be many randomly generated cultures, each with one or more native alphabets. But who knows? Maybe it's a starting point for a clever modder.
Post
Tue Dec 02, 2014 4:59 pm
#2
Re: Imaginary Alphabets
Man, I've never been more hyped for learning to mod for a game than for LT. This is just such an awesome idea.
Post
Tue Dec 02, 2014 6:20 pm
#3
Re: Imaginary Alphabets
Ohhhhhh, I like this. Bookmarking this. I already wrote a program to procedurally generate thematic languages - this would make it so, so easy to make something that could procedurally generate characters as well.
Well... relatively easy, anyway. It makes for a good starting point.
Well... relatively easy, anyway. It makes for a good starting point.
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Post
Tue Dec 02, 2014 11:00 pm
#4
Re: Imaginary Alphabets
When I got bored in highschool i developed a habit of designing writing systems. I never got into conlanging, though, so they were all for english. Here's a sample of my most recent (and most developed) conscript -- an abugida:
I can explain the orthography in more detail, if anyone's interested.
Talvieno -- what's this about procedurally generated languages? Do tell.
I can explain the orthography in more detail, if anyone's interested.
Talvieno -- what's this about procedurally generated languages? Do tell.
Post
Tue Dec 02, 2014 11:15 pm
#5
Re: Imaginary Alphabets
That's fascinating, Juggler -- I understand now (I think) the origin of your avatar for this forum.
I have a vivid memory of creating new fonts while bored out of my mind in my high school English class, writing "this is boring" in my novel font, followed by realizing that in my preoccupation I hadn't noticed that my teacher was standing right behind me reading every word.
That wasn't really a new alphabet (or abugida), though. Neat stuff, and please feel free to share info about yours here if you like.
I have a vivid memory of creating new fonts while bored out of my mind in my high school English class, writing "this is boring" in my novel font, followed by realizing that in my preoccupation I hadn't noticed that my teacher was standing right behind me reading every word.
That wasn't really a new alphabet (or abugida), though. Neat stuff, and please feel free to share info about yours here if you like.
Post
Wed Dec 03, 2014 12:26 am
#6
Re: Imaginary Alphabets
[nerdgasm]
My main goal designing it was to make something as wildly different from our alphabet as possible. So in addition to making it a (strictly phonetic) abugida, I also made sure to add as many irregularities as possible. The end result was an insanely complicated script. How insane?
1. As with all abugidas, vowels are written as modifications to the preceding consonant. But in my script, most vowels (or diphthongs -- the script treats them as the same thing) can be written by changing the shape of the consonant, adding a diacritic above or below the consonant, or even writing the vowel (spoken after the cons.) before the consonant. None of these methods are ever interchangeable, because reasons.
2. A lot of abugidas have a null consonant. Mine has two! They aren't interchangeable.
3. It indicates stressed syllables. It can do so by (a) doubling the vowel or (b) marking the stressed sound by placing a "stress" character before it. And no, these aren't interchangeable either.
4. It makes extensive use of ligatures. Remember all of those diacritics I've mentioned? Well, ligatures frequently affect their placement, such that they don't modify the letter they're over, but rather that other character way the hell over there. YAY CONTEXT CLUES.
5. But, you know, at least it doesn't have capital letters.
[/nerdgasm]
The whole process has actually been a great learning experience. It's helped teach me how other writing systems can differ from our own. It was an interesting artistic challenge, as well. Unifying all of the letterforms (there's more than a hundred, not counting ligatures) to give the script its "look" was devilishly tricky.
My main goal designing it was to make something as wildly different from our alphabet as possible. So in addition to making it a (strictly phonetic) abugida, I also made sure to add as many irregularities as possible. The end result was an insanely complicated script. How insane?
1. As with all abugidas, vowels are written as modifications to the preceding consonant. But in my script, most vowels (or diphthongs -- the script treats them as the same thing) can be written by changing the shape of the consonant, adding a diacritic above or below the consonant, or even writing the vowel (spoken after the cons.) before the consonant. None of these methods are ever interchangeable, because reasons.
2. A lot of abugidas have a null consonant. Mine has two! They aren't interchangeable.
3. It indicates stressed syllables. It can do so by (a) doubling the vowel or (b) marking the stressed sound by placing a "stress" character before it. And no, these aren't interchangeable either.
4. It makes extensive use of ligatures. Remember all of those diacritics I've mentioned? Well, ligatures frequently affect their placement, such that they don't modify the letter they're over, but rather that other character way the hell over there. YAY CONTEXT CLUES.
5. But, you know, at least it doesn't have capital letters.
[/nerdgasm]
The whole process has actually been a great learning experience. It's helped teach me how other writing systems can differ from our own. It was an interesting artistic challenge, as well. Unifying all of the letterforms (there's more than a hundred, not counting ligatures) to give the script its "look" was devilishly tricky.
omg this is hilariousFlatfingers wrote:
I have a vivid memory of creating new fonts while bored out of my mind in my high school English class, writing "this is boring" in my novel font, followed by realizing that in my preoccupation I hadn't noticed that my teacher was standing right behind me reading every word.
Post
Wed Dec 03, 2014 1:01 am
#7
Re: Imaginary Alphabets
<whistle> That is certainly detailed.
At first it reminded me of Tamil, but after looking at the abugida chart on Wikipedia I see that it seems closer in spirit to Telugu. Were you inspired by the looks of any existing abugidas or alphabets?
(Actually, when I originally looked closely at your example, my first thought was, "Hmmm... these look sort of like English letters read in a mirror." I tried flipping them horizontally, and sure enough, some of the individual letters start to look familiar: I can see an "s" and an "a," and possibly "c" and "r" and "n" as well... but I think those are just coincidences. And yet somehow the horizontally flipped text seems to me to create words that almost feel like I should be able to translate them, where the original feels more alien. Funny. )
Is there also an invented language behind the characters, or are they a direct cipher for an existing human language? I think I'm safe in guessing that this one is a cipher from English, yes?
Also, not to pry into "because reasons," but are there at least rules behind the reasons for the different non-interchangeable placements of vowels and stresses and non-consonants so that I don't have to try to sleep knowing that someone has invented a semi-randomized writing system?
At first it reminded me of Tamil, but after looking at the abugida chart on Wikipedia I see that it seems closer in spirit to Telugu. Were you inspired by the looks of any existing abugidas or alphabets?
(Actually, when I originally looked closely at your example, my first thought was, "Hmmm... these look sort of like English letters read in a mirror." I tried flipping them horizontally, and sure enough, some of the individual letters start to look familiar: I can see an "s" and an "a," and possibly "c" and "r" and "n" as well... but I think those are just coincidences. And yet somehow the horizontally flipped text seems to me to create words that almost feel like I should be able to translate them, where the original feels more alien. Funny. )
Is there also an invented language behind the characters, or are they a direct cipher for an existing human language? I think I'm safe in guessing that this one is a cipher from English, yes?
Also, not to pry into "because reasons," but are there at least rules behind the reasons for the different non-interchangeable placements of vowels and stresses and non-consonants so that I don't have to try to sleep knowing that someone has invented a semi-randomized writing system?
The story has a happy ending; this teacher got me a scholastic award that year... for English.TheJuggler wrote:omg this is hilariousFlatfingers wrote:I have a vivid memory of creating new fonts while bored out of my mind in my high school English class, writing "this is boring" in my novel font, followed by realizing that in my preoccupation I hadn't noticed that my teacher was standing right behind me reading every word.
Post
Wed Dec 03, 2014 2:18 am
#8
And those almost-English letters? You got me. Designing >20 basic letterforms from scratch was too much. Some of the letters are completely original, and others bear resemblance by chance, but all told, I ultimately took/slightly modified:
5, 4, 3, 2, c, n, R, s, z, and G.
There are definitely rules to the madness -- nothing is random.
The null consonants are probably the simplest example. One is used only at the beginning of words (and can carry both mods and diacritics) while the other is used in all other cases (and can only carry diacritics.)
It's hard to concisely explain the situation with the vowels, but it could be said that mods are standard and diacritics and standalone letters are (usually) auxiliary. Usually if a diacritic is used it is over the medial null consonant (^) or is rewriting the vowel already marked via a mod (i.e. doubling) to indicate stress. There are other uses, though.
Part of the reason why it is so complex is because I just kind of threw new features into the mix every few weeks/months instead of designing it from the beginning with all of those features in mind -- i.e. the rules and complexities grew organically as a by-product of finagling. So you can sleep easy. Or not, seeing as the semi-randomized writing system you mentioned already exists. It's called English orthography.
Re: Imaginary Alphabets
As a matter of fact, I was! One of my earliest goals as I was developing it was to elicit a resemblance to the Brahmic scripts (like Telugu, Gujarati, etc.), but I avoided actually looking at any of them during the initial drafting period to avoid explicitly borrowing any letterforms. I *did* end up stealing a few letters from Thai, though. Throughout the bulk of development, I drew most of my inspiration from Ayeri, a conscript by Carsten Becker:Flatfingers wrote:<whistle> That is certainly detailed.
At first it reminded me of Tamil, but after looking at the abugida chart on Wikipedia I see that it seems closer in spirit to Telugu. Were you inspired by the looks of any existing abugidas or alphabets?
(Actually, when I originally looked closely at your example, my first thought was, "Hmmm... these look sort of like English letters read in a mirror." I tried flipping them horizontally, and sure enough, some of the individual letters start to look familiar: I can see an "s" and an "a," and possibly "c" and "r" and "n" as well... but I think those are just coincidences. And yet somehow the horizontally flipped text seems to me to create words that almost feel like I should be able to translate them, where the original feels more alien. Funny. )
And those almost-English letters? You got me. Designing >20 basic letterforms from scratch was too much. Some of the letters are completely original, and others bear resemblance by chance, but all told, I ultimately took/slightly modified:
5, 4, 3, 2, c, n, R, s, z, and G.
No conlanging here! I simply don't have the time. So, yes, it is a phonetic transcription of English. It's actually optimized for my specific American accent, partly because I'm not terribly familiar with other accents. For instance, like me, my script exhibits the cot-caught merger.Flatfingers wrote: Is there also an invented language behind the characters, or are they a direct cipher for an existing human language? I think I'm safe in guessing that this one is a cipher from English, yes?
Also, not to pry into "because reasons," but are there at least rules behind the reasons for the different non-interchangeable placements of vowels and stresses and non-consonants so that I don't have to try to sleep knowing that someone has invented a semi-randomized writing system?
There are definitely rules to the madness -- nothing is random.
The null consonants are probably the simplest example. One is used only at the beginning of words (and can carry both mods and diacritics) while the other is used in all other cases (and can only carry diacritics.)
It's hard to concisely explain the situation with the vowels, but it could be said that mods are standard and diacritics and standalone letters are (usually) auxiliary. Usually if a diacritic is used it is over the medial null consonant (^) or is rewriting the vowel already marked via a mod (i.e. doubling) to indicate stress. There are other uses, though.
Part of the reason why it is so complex is because I just kind of threw new features into the mix every few weeks/months instead of designing it from the beginning with all of those features in mind -- i.e. the rules and complexities grew organically as a by-product of finagling. So you can sleep easy. Or not, seeing as the semi-randomized writing system you mentioned already exists. It's called English orthography.
Spoiler: SHOW
Post
Wed Dec 03, 2014 9:30 am
#9
the,juggler,thejuggler,talvieno,whats,this,about,procedurally,generated,languages,do,tell
It comes out with:
plus a couple thousand other words.
It also adds prefixes and suffixes to words based on their theme/meaning. In this particular case:
The created words are affected by a diverse variety of things, such as the average length of the input words, the length of the original translations, the vowel/consonant placement, etc.
Just to give a couple examples, here's the result of asking someone who'd visited Italy to provide me with ten random Italian words:
And the result of inputting the names of all the greek gods I could think of:
I never thought of making my own alphabet... I really want to do that now. Procedurally, though... it'd be interesting to attempt, I think, but art and letter combinations are two entirely different things, and creating alphabets would be a lot more difficult than creating languages.
Re: Imaginary Alphabets
It's simple stuff, really... I wrote a program that would produce a language from any number of user-input words. It was originally for my own benefit, but I later modified it for Dwarf Fortress... I have another version of my own that's a lot more complex. Using the Dwarf Fortress version, if I take your words in the above quote (and your name):TheJuggler wrote:Talvieno -- what's this about procedurally generated languages? Do tell.
the,juggler,thejuggler,talvieno,whats,this,about,procedurally,generated,languages,do,tell
It comes out with:
Spoiler: SHOW
It also adds prefixes and suffixes to words based on their theme/meaning. In this particular case:
Spoiler: SHOW
Just to give a couple examples, here's the result of asking someone who'd visited Italy to provide me with ten random Italian words:
Spoiler: SHOW
Spoiler: SHOW
I never thought of making my own alphabet... I really want to do that now. Procedurally, though... it'd be interesting to attempt, I think, but art and letter combinations are two entirely different things, and creating alphabets would be a lot more difficult than creating languages.
Have a question? Send me a PM! || I have a Patreon page up for REKT now! || People talking in IRC over the past two hours:
Post
Fri Dec 05, 2014 1:16 pm
#10
Makes me wonder, if this unresolved mystery was something like a sketchbook by a bored scholar
Re: Imaginary Alphabets
That looks like one of the biggest mysterys of the cryptography, the Voynich manuscript : http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Voynich_manuscriptTheJuggler wrote:When I got bored in highschool i developed a habit of designing writing systems. I never got into conlanging, though, so they were all for english. Here's a sample of my most recent (and most developed) conscript -- an abugida:
Makes me wonder, if this unresolved mystery was something like a sketchbook by a bored scholar
Post
Fri Dec 05, 2014 1:28 pm
#11
Re: Imaginary Alphabets
blacktea wrote: Makes me wonder, if this unresolved mystery was something like a sketchbook by a bored scholar
Post
Fri Dec 05, 2014 4:03 pm
#12
Re: Imaginary Alphabets
Ooh, I've read about that! I think it's utterly fascinating that it displays at once charateristics highly indicative of language and features not present in any language. Whatever it is, I doubt it's a hoax. There's no way someone could have created a hoax *that* covincing in the 15th century.blacktea wrote:
That looks like one of the biggest mysterys of the cryptography, the Voynich manuscript : http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Voynich_manuscript
Makes me wonder, if this unresolved mystery was something like a sketchbook by a bored scholar
Post
Fri Dec 05, 2014 4:13 pm
#13
Re: Imaginary Alphabets
Some people think it was written by a teenage Leonardo da Vinci, I think?
Post
Fri Dec 05, 2014 4:16 pm
#14
Re: Imaginary Alphabets
Ahem.
Would be a rather cool idea for a mod though, NPC's speaking in their own language and having their own writing on their ships.
Would be a rather cool idea for a mod though, NPC's speaking in their own language and having their own writing on their ships.
Warning: do not ask about physics unless you really want to know about physics.
The LT IRC / Alternate link || The REKT Wiki || PUDDING
The LT IRC / Alternate link || The REKT Wiki || PUDDING
Post
Fri Dec 05, 2014 4:38 pm
#15
I wonder if the mod could go further than strange words/phonology and give the languages their own (rough) grammar?
Re: Imaginary Alphabets
Absolutely! I support this 100%Dinosawer wrote:
Ahem.
Would be a rather cool idea for a mod though, NPC's speaking in their own language and having their own writing on their ships.
I wonder if the mod could go further than strange words/phonology and give the languages their own (rough) grammar?