Shadows

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Shadows

Postby Talvieno » Sun May 25, 2014 7:12 pm

I'm guessing this would be the correct place to put this. I'm watching the last dev video again, and I'm noticing that there aren't any shadows being cast by ships or asteroids - while ships and asteroids have a dark side and a light side, none of them cast shadows on each other. A very good example is at 14:10 - with the ship lodged in an asteroid. Is it going to be like this when the game is done?

If this topic already exists, I haven't seen it, I apologize, and feel free to merge this thread. I did a quick search before I posted - didn't see anything, but I wouldn't be surprised if it exists and I just missed it.
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Re: Shadows

Postby Flatfingers » Sun May 25, 2014 8:21 pm

Talvieno wrote:I'm watching the last dev video again, and I'm noticing that there aren't any shadows being cast by ships or asteroids - while ships and asteroids have a dark side and a light side, none of them cast shadows on each other.

I've asked about that, but it's been a while.

Wouldn't mind a bit of volumetric lighting, know what I mean, nudge-nudge, say no more?
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Re: Shadows

Postby Idunno » Sun May 25, 2014 8:36 pm

I think that might be because Josh turned off collision. Then again what do I know? :problem:
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Re: Shadows

Postby Talvieno » Mon May 26, 2014 9:20 am

Idunno wrote:I think that might be because Josh turned off collision. Then again what do I know? :problem:

In real life, collisions and shadows are essentially the same: particles of light are colliding with objects and creating areas where there are fewer particles as a result. In a game, though, they're two entirely different things. One is a graphics effect and one is physics.

I know he turned off collisions, but there should still be shadows, unless he hasn't implemented them - and I haven't seen anywhere where it says or shows that he has.

I think we need to let this guy loose for a little bit: :monkey: (nudge nudge)
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Re: Shadows

Postby JoshParnell » Mon May 26, 2014 10:31 am

Shadows are just something that I have never gotten around to, but never quite felt it would be worth the time. I've never done shadows before, so it would take a bit of a time investment to bring that technical facet up to par with the rest of the engine. Frankly, since shadows are a bit...less relevant in space than they are in high-object-density situations, I figured I could get away without them for 1.0 :oops:

Currently that sits in the bowl of 'executive decisions with no real justification other than saving time.' :P

Someday I will enjoy implementing them :)
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Re: Shadows

Postby Talvieno » Mon May 26, 2014 1:16 pm

Frankly, since shadows are a bit...less relevant in space than they are in high-object-density situations, I figured I could get away without them for 1.0


In the last dev video, perhaps, but I've seen dev videos with significantly denser asteroid fields. I do feel it can provide quite a great deal to the feel of the universe, particularly if there's a planet in the way or something (Best example is how weird it'll be to see a well-lit asteroid field where a planet's shadow ought to be, I suppose.). Seeing an enemy ship's shadow flit over an asteroid as they pass it seems pretty good, too. I understand the concerns with time, so I'm wondering just exactly how long you think it'll take. You managed water on planets in a single day, as I recall.

I threw this together in about an hour or so. Just a simple comparison, using the color scheme from your last dev video. (And yes, the asteroid field is fairly thick.)

(Also, yes, it's ugly, I know. Just bear with me.)
Without:
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With:
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edit: rendered a quick flyby to show the field density: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o6f6QWana3w
Last edited by Talvieno on Sun Jun 01, 2014 7:15 am, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Shadows

Postby Zanteogo » Tue May 27, 2014 5:19 am

Nice Talvieno!
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Re: Shadows

Postby Baile nam Fonn » Sat May 31, 2014 7:21 am

JoshParnell wrote:I figured I could get away without them for 1.0 :oops:

aww. :(

JoshParnell wrote:Someday I will enjoy implementing them :)

Oooo! :squirrel:
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Re: Shadows

Postby Talvieno » Sun Jun 01, 2014 7:16 am

I still hope he'll include them... maybe when he gets to beta stuff. I considered putting a poll up, but I'm not sure just how much effect polls have on Mr. Parnell's vision. :P
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Re: Shadows

Postby Jacobi1981 » Sun Jun 01, 2014 11:18 am

i wonder how much of an impact shadows will have on performance. if it came down to it i'd turn shadows off if it meant smoother gameplay in a crowded system.
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Re: Shadows

Postby Jamiee5300 » Sun Jun 01, 2014 2:52 pm

To be honest I hadn't noticed the lack of shadows at all, I'm not really fussed, I'm still hypnotised by the dynamic lighting and nebulae. :lol:
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Re: Shadows

Postby Talvieno » Mon Jun 02, 2014 9:35 pm

Jamiee5300 wrote:To be honest I hadn't noticed the lack of shadows at all, I'm not really fussed, I'm still hypnotised by the dynamic lighting and nebulae. :lol:

I'm sure you'd notice, after they'd been there a bit. Really, they're more than just a bit of eye candy... shadows help with depth perception, too.
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Re: Shadows

Postby Daniel » Tue Jun 03, 2014 5:21 am

Jacobi1981 wrote:i wonder how much of an impact shadows will have on performance. if it came down to it i'd turn shadows off if it meant smoother gameplay in a crowded system.


That's you. And for those with more powerful hardware, the impact of shadows on performance would be negligible.

Not to mention, there are a couple of ways to implement shadows in game, each with various hits on performance at the cost of realism (e.g. blurry shadows compared to sharp shadows).
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Re: Shadows

Postby Talvieno » Tue Jun 03, 2014 5:26 am

I don't think we'd really need sharp shadows, honestly. Any kind of shadow would have a very positive impact on gameplay - we use shadows to help gauge how far something is from the ground - or in this case, asteroids. Also, pretty.
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Re: Shadows

Postby Zanteogo » Sun Jun 22, 2014 6:52 am

Actually, the more I think about it, the more shadows make a ton a sense.

Unless we have binary star systems (which we have not seen yet), all systems will have one big single light source. How cool would it be to see the giant shadow of a planet against a string of asteroids?

You could even get fancy and have the option of equipping ships with light sources and have a flash light effect...

Optional of course, but I plan on upgrading right before release for a reason. :D
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