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Re: OpenGL version

#16
JoshParnell wrote:Yep, thanks for posting, agreed with Katawa - those drivers will more than handle LT! :thumbup:
Good, I suspected that :)

Most people with a modern Nvidia or AMD card using proprietary drivers will probably be able to run LT on Linux. However, I was more concerned about the people running with Mesa (like Intel HD4000 owners) and it looks like there is hope for Mesa to get full OpenGL 3.3 compliance within a year or so (cross my fingers) : http://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=n ... px=MTE4MTA

http://www.phoronix.com/ is by the way a good source for keeping up to date with Linux and graphics (plus a lot of other Linux related stuff).

Thanx guys for a good Linux discussion. I will get back to this if I learn anything important.
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Re: Linux and OpenGL version

#17
The other thing is, keep in mind that there aren't any native builds for Linux yet. Josh has said he'll make it cross-platform, and knowing his skill, it'll only be a couple of days to port it.

I wouldn't worry. It also means that the drivers have more time to evolve by the time Josh gets the game out.
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Early Spring - 1055: Well, I made it to Boatmurdered, and my initial impressions can be set forth in three words: What. The. F*ck.
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Re: Linux and OpenGL version

#18
DWMagus wrote:The other thing is, keep in mind that there aren't any native builds for Linux yet. Josh has said he'll make it cross-platform, and knowing his skill, it'll only be a couple of days to port it.

I wouldn't worry. It also means that the drivers have more time to evolve by the time Josh gets the game out.
Nvidia is slowly putting Optimus support in their linux drivers... So in a year or two we probably won't need bumblebee anymore.
Not holding my breath.
Beware of he who would deny you access to information, for in his heart he dreams himself your master.
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Re: Linux and OpenGL version

#22
Katawa wrote:
codeape wrote:A pretty good overview of the Linux Graphics Stack with some "good to know" details about OpenGL :
http://blog.mecheye.net/2012/06/the-lin ... ics-stack/
Ideally SFML will abstract away any X functionality but this is a really good read, especially if any SFML issues crop up later that Josh might need to patch himself.
Yes SFML will solve much of the stuff. However, the part from the link that discuss the libGL.so and can cause problems during linking. This is from my Linux machine :
#>locate libGL.so
/usr/lib/fglrx/libGL.so
/usr/lib/fglrx/libGL.so.1
/usr/lib/fglrx/libGL.so.1.2
/usr/lib/x86_64-linux-gnu/libGL.so
/usr/lib/x86_64-linux-gnu/mesa/libGL.so
/usr/lib/x86_64-linux-gnu/mesa/libGL.so.1
/usr/lib/x86_64-linux-gnu/mesa/libGL.so.1.2.0
/usr/lib32/fglrx/libGL.so.1
/usr/lib32/fglrx/libGL.so.1.2
Look at the red lines, two different GL shared object files. It is probably good to check which one you got linked in.
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Re: Linux and OpenGL version

#24
The New Linux OpenGL ABI Is Nearing Reality:
http://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=n ... px=MTQ3MTc
The new Linux OpenGL ABI is set to define better interaction between applications and the OpenGL libraries (including EGL and GLX) and to allow for multiple OpenGL vendor drivers (e.g. the binary NVIDIA and AMD drivers along with the different Gallium3D/Mesa drivers) to all co-exist and work happily on the same file-system, and even to allow for multiple vendor OpenGL drivers to work/function together from the same application process. The new OpenGL ABI will still maintain backwards compatibility for existing applications and drivers.

The Good & Bad OpenGL Drivers On Linux:
What are the best and worst Linux OpenGL graphics drivers from a game developer's perspective? Here's some feedback from one open-source game project.
https://dolphin-emu.org/blog/2013/09/26 ... fameshame/
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Re: Linux and OpenGL version

#27
Why would you even use Mesa & nouveau or the amd open source drivers?

Seriously just why? :think:

except for those times when AMD's proprietary drivers and X11 are hating on each other and being incompatible and stuff i can't think of any good reason to use the open source GPU drivers on linux, save for the Intel HD cards of course since i don't think they have any proprietary linux driver. :ghost:
Katawa wrote:Historically speaking ati has done a better job on linux driver support than nvidia, so you're ahead in that department. Out of curiosity what flavor of linux do you use?
Not in recent history... i haven't seen the nvidia drivers not supporting X11 lately at least, and according to benchmarks the current nvidia linux drivers are competitive with the win8 drivers in performance... Nvidia are doing an epic job atm, and i could've sworn i saw new configuration options that hadn't been there before in the nvidia drivers on linux last i checked can't remember specifically which ones though.

It wasn't long ago (this year) that i actually just switched to win7 on my laptop because the latest AMD drivers were behind X11 and didn't support it! (X11 dropped some obsolete stuffs for performance which broke AMD driver compatibility, didn't look into the details)

The performance of the AMD drivers has been pretty shitty too in comparison to nvidia, but latest linux kernel version (not AMD driver version) massively increased AMD driver performance we're talking up to double digit fps increase.

But in terms of "support" in context with recent history, Nvidia wins over AMD for sure!
This is where the cat is from and yes you should definitely watch that.
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Re: Linux and OpenGL version

#28
Well, historically doesn't mean right this second.
As to why you'd use the open source drivers, some distro's only include open source drivers. Debian for example. And the reasoning behind that is a driving force for some people.
woops, my bad, everything & anything actually means specific and conformed
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Re: Linux and OpenGL version

#29
Rabcor wrote:Why would you even use Mesa & nouveau or the amd open source drivers?
Well, you answered that question partly your self:
Rabcor wrote:save for the Intel HD cards of course since i don't think they have any proprietary linux driver.
I think it is grate that Intel has open sourced their driver and I think that it is important that some grate games (like LT) can be played on those cards that uses open source drivers. The pro of open source drivers are many: You can compile them optimized for your hardware, you can find and fix bugs your self and give back the bug fix to the community etc etc.

Nvidia vs. AMD ... historically they both have had good drivers and bad drivers. However, I have bought AMD cards because AMD has provided technical documentation to the open source community driver which is awesome. Nvidia started to release some technical documentation to the open source community this year so maybe my next card will be a Nvidia :D. I think Nvidia released the documentation because Linus Torvalds gave Nvidia the finger on YouTube: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iYWzMvlj2RQ
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Re: Linux and OpenGL version

#30
You don't need to lecture me about open source ;) i know what it is, both it's qualities and it's flaws.

I agree that the qualities outweigh the flaws. But the thing is that these open source drivers tend to be dirt in comparison to the proprietary ones. I should rather say, "official" ones. And i do recommend Nvidia cards, in all my history as a computer user i have not once been let down or disappointed by an Nvidia GPU, and same goes for intel CPUs, if i have ever been disappointed by hardware (inside the box anyways) it's been AMD, ATI, Western Digital, Mushkin. Apart from these brands i can't think of anything that i've encountered thats particularly bad, but thats probably because i avoid brands if i have any say in the matter, and i have already decided which brands are my favorites for certain hardware (all sound = Creative) (Input = Logitech) (Monitors = Tv brands/Philips)

I tried AMD CPUs and GPUs (together) for like 2 years, i actually regretted changing from i think it was intel E6300 or somethin like that (core 2 duo @ 2.4ghz) for an AMD Phenom II X2 BE or somethin like that (think it was a 3ghz dual core amd processor) it was basically a new generation AMD cpu vs an old generation Intel CPU, i actually felt that the AMD CPU was doing its job slower than the old Intel processor, of course it was just a feeling rather than any real benchmark, but it just felt wrong to use the AMD cpu...

Next with the AMD GPUs, i had 5 cards or so, out of which 3 were just simply faulty and i had to have replaced after finding a reliable way to reproduce the glitches. I've had probably about 10 Nvidia cards and none were faulty. Again though i had a current generation AMD card, and i regretted buying it instead of my 2 gens old Nvidia card. The nvidia card was 8800GTS, i think the AMD card i used was 5770 but i'm not sure, might've been 4770 either way it was a much newer gaming grade card than my 8800 bought i think 2 years later than the 8800. The 8800 is of course a legendary card, it can still run most things.

I also have an AMD laptop now that i bought used. It's one of those APU pieces of dirt, first of all, the processor (again) doesn't feel right, and the graphics performance is terrible and the "dedicated" graphics part of the APU can cause all sorts of problems including lag, and freezing(temporary). Also with this laptop something happened that hasn't happened with any laptop i have ever had. I had to exchange the thermal paste on the processor because the damned thing started overheating like crazy... It couldn't even complete a nice compilation of a program without overheating :problem: after exchanging the paste it's still just worse in my eyes than my intel based thinkpad, that btw has an iGPU. There's this "if" the dedicated graphics on the laptop works, then it has better gaming performance than my thinkpad, otherwise it's worthless to me, i only use it as a communication center (skype, teamspeak, chrome, etc) whereas my thinkpad is my wonderful, reliable school laptop and i can without any fears install Linux as the only OS on that one (but on the AMD laptop i have this constant fear that the drivers wont work with X in some version so i just use windows)

But due to all the faulty AMD GPUs i had, and just how the AMD cpu didn't feel right to me, i had the computer for 2 years and then i sold it never to buy an AMD product ever again. I hate them in a biased kind of way now, i wouldn't trust them to make the processor for my damn laptop :evil:.

Due to my experiences with AMD, i am inclined to think that they use cheaper components than intel & nvidia for their products. (Which would explain why they're cheaper) I choose quality over affordability when it comes to my PC.

Probably the biggest reason why i wont buy a PS4 is that it uses AMD hardware, and i just don't trust AMD.

But apart from my hate on AMD and all of its products, then yes Nvidia (from what i've seen, both in experience and benchmarks) in general has better performance than AMD GPUs. This is however subjective so you could call it an opinion. And Nvidia is also working hard to do better on Linux, this is not because Linus torvalds threw them a finger, actually kudos to them to have enough business sense to ignore that, (seriously, he should apologize by now...), the reason they're doing this now is:

SteamBox/SteamOS, i got some info on the steambox earlier this year where valve had experimental nvidia drivers, this leads me to believe that valve which is actively trying to push gaming to linux has made some sort of contract (or similar) with nvidia to convince nvidia to make better linux drivers so that their SteamBox which is probaby meant to ship with an Nvidia GPU will not suck when it's released.

Shield: Shield is android based so they need to get up close and personal with Linux anyways.
This is where the cat is from and yes you should definitely watch that.

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