concealed weapons

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Re: concealed weapons

Postby BFett » Tue May 09, 2017 12:24 pm

0111narwhalz wrote:To make concealment worth it, we need multiple damage types.
Again, the utility of this system hinges on the ability of ships to change their damage types between the scan and the first shot.

While I agree that multiple damage types are necessary for LT to have interesting combat and research trees, I don't agree with ships being able to change weapon systems on the fly (unless they are docked at a station or carrier). I do however agree that ammo types should be able to be swapped out on a moments notice to better adapt to various situations. I also like the idea of a simple bar system which quickly displays the defense types a ship has. Perhaps this system could be an expanded version of the current sensor game mechanics where ships with different strengths of shield generators have different energy signatures or energy output signatures at a specific frequency.
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Re: concealed weapons

Postby Flatfingers » Tue May 09, 2017 2:10 pm

Maybe the notion of "concealment" goes away -- or gets more interesting? -- if we rethought the notion of hardpoints as only for mounting weapons.

I don't know about going to a single generic "slot" model where you can mount any kind of thing into any slot. It probably makes some sense to distinguish between power, shield/armor, and other kinds of systems, for example.

But stopping at "other" could be pretty interesting. Let's say you see a ship of a certain class with, say, five general hardpoints (beyond those specifically available for power and shields/armor). Your passive scan shows you that this ship sports five general hardpoints, but you have no way of knowing what's mounted in them. Everything looks like a gun, but it might be five guns, or five missile launchers, or five mining drone pods, or five cargo bays, or four sensor rigs and an extra computer rack for the really powerful scanning capability a small, nimble scout ship might want to have. Or maybe it's two guns, one sensor rig, one computer rack, and a booster engine for a small exploration ship.

The point is that even though you can see how many hardpoints a ship has -- they aren't concealed -- you can't know what's mounted in them except by scanning that ship. This delivers the value of concealment, and of sensors, and of sensor-based gameplay prior to the onset of hostilities, without needing to resort to special-case code to hide hardpoints somehow.

Would this way of looking at hardpoints make the whole "sensor scan" thing tolerable as a feature Josh might include, even for those who don't think they'd be interested in using it themselves?
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Re: concealed weapons

Postby Damocles » Sat May 27, 2017 4:45 am

To make concealed weapons work, there needs the be a general trade-of between weapons and other aspects of the ship.
True, any thoughtful observer (AI or player) would expect a ship wich can have like 8 hardpoints, not to fill them all up. (thus implying concealed hardpoints anyway)

Unless: NOT filling up hardpoints gives the ship other advantages.
This could be a general tradeoff between:

weight / total mass of the ship:
more mass due to weapons means less space for cargo, other modules and less acceleration speed.

more energy drawn by weapons means less power for shields, scanners or engines (in the case of electric ion-engines for example)

hardpoints in general are structures that also use up space inside the hull to support and run them, not placing a hardpoint means more space for other hull

any system needs to be run by the central computer and communicate over the central data-bus. And especially weapons need a lot of it for targeting. Not running them will free up capacity for sensors/scanners for example.

When there is a tradeof, then there is also a reason to do as such. (eg, not filling hard points, or hiding to have them secretly filled)

To make this visible to the player:
there should be a ship information on the HUD such as: "frigate class ship, 2 / 10 hardpoints detected."
So the player can guess if the ship is hiding weapons, or (in the case of a merchant) actually just needs the space for more cargo modules.

Strategies for the player:
-fully equipped visible hardpoints: battle setup
-using only 1/10 hardpoints but full cargo: trading setup
-using no hardpoints and no cargo: speed setup, to deliver small packages or explore for example.
-only concealed weapons: pirating setup, surprise attacks OR: playing bait for pirates, they think one is defenseless, so they see an easy target.
otherwise the pirates might avoid a fully armed ship...
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Re: concealed weapons

Postby Cornflakes_91 » Sat May 27, 2017 3:07 pm

Damocles wrote:space:
hardpoints in general are structures that also use up space inside the hull to support and run them, not placing a hardpoint means more space for other hull

thats something for the ship design phase, not ship equip phase.

i totally dont want the hull strength or cargo capacity of my ship change because i mounted a missile on an external hardpoint :P
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