Customizing the "Attack" Command

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Re: Customizing the "Attack" Command

Postby DWMagus » Sun Jan 20, 2013 3:28 pm

Rabiator, that's probably the best way to do it. Does need some modifications, but then it becomes intuitive and quite effective AI. Once something is crippled, the targeting would automatically change targets to take care of something more important.

However it does need to be modified about the chance of destruction. Like I said, a beam turret would pose considerable risk if it happens to lock onto the bomber (bombers do make excellent targets for slower lock weapons like anti-fighter beams) and could easily take out the bomber.

Refine it to also include how likely you are to take out your attacker as well. This way those escort fighters don't try and take on a destroyer, but might consider a corvette--or at least the weapon mounts.
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Re: Customizing the "Attack" Command

Postby Rabiator » Sun Jan 20, 2013 4:01 pm

Chance of destruction would be computed by weapon, and if different weapons can be aimed at different targets, a ship might split its firepower between targets. In our example, the battleship could have some flak of its own and aim that at the Edit: bombers while the main guns engage a destroyer.

Maybe a ship cannot split up its firepower. Think of a fighter with high speed (it can close with every opponent in sight) but low weapon range (it can be only close enough to one target at a time to be in range). Then the AI would have to compute an overall usefulness for going after each target. Do I chase the bombers or a destroyer?

I'm sure we could find some more refinements, but the above with a halfway realistic model of threat values might already beat the X3TC AI. I have not played AP yet, maybe Gazz made enough of a difference there that the AI appears less brain dead :lol: .
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Re: Customizing the "Attack" Command

Postby JoshParnell » Sun Jan 20, 2013 5:23 pm

Sadly I've lost touch with the full scope of this thread thanks to the absurd amount of awesome, detailed discussions you guys are having.

But I had to jump in and say that Rabiator, your idea is fantastic, simple, and powerful. It's probably what I would have done, because it's more-or-less how high-level AI works: expected value of action = sum over all possible outcomes of (probability of outcome * value of outcome). Which is basically a bit of a formal version of what you're saying! But thanks for applying it and making it very clear to this situation, I hadn't really thought of it in terms of targeting priorities before.

IMO it's the right solution, so you can expect to see it in-game :D
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Re: Customizing the "Attack" Command

Postby No Potential » Thu Jan 24, 2013 10:08 pm

Out of curiousity, how difficult would it be to implement a gambit system (think of FFXII [lame game I know])

For instance, the more leadership skill you possess, the more options become available to you, and the more conditions you can set.

Example:

Fighter Squadron - General

1. If HP < 25% > Return to Base
2. If Enemy [Fighter] Inside of Capital Ship's Shields > Pursue using [Formation: Loose]
3. If Enemy [Fighter] within [Distance = 1000m] > Pursue using [Formation: Delta]
4. Escort Fleet

Fighter Squadron - v Capital Ships
1. If HP < 25% > Return to Base
2. If Munitions: Torpedoes = 0 > Return to Base
3. If Enemy [Capital] within [2,000m] Pursue using [Formation: Delta] [Focus: Flak Turrets, Capital Turrets, Engines, Hangar, Comms]
    3.1 If Threat: Flak: > High > Go To 4
    3.2 If Friendly Fleet Retreating > Return to Base
4. Escort Mothership


etc, etc.

So basically it will just work its way down the conditions list, and it will proceed to execute the first condition that is met. The player can change which gambit is active given any given situation.

Personally I think it would be a really cool feature to have, and would make being a Fleet Commander all the more awesome :D No idea how hard it would be to put into practice, however. :?

Edit::

Just thought I'd mention that I'm also all for having a manual method as well, which would override the gambit system. Just intense amounts of micromanaging gets tedious and having everything done for you automatically gets boring (for me anyway :roll: )
Last edited by No Potential on Fri Jan 25, 2013 8:09 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Customizing the "Attack" Command

Postby Katorone » Fri Jan 25, 2013 3:49 am

Lovely idea!

In general situations I think the AI should be smart enough to make the right choices. But this gambit system would be great to have in situations where you want your ships to do something specific. Eg keep in formation with a transporter and shoot down missiles, only to break off when in dogfighting range, etc.
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Re: Customizing the "Attack" Command

Postby DWMagus » Fri Jan 25, 2013 12:27 pm

The gambit system was brought up before.

I mentioned it here and Josh's response here.

JoshParnell wrote:@DWMagnus, I'd like to mention that the "gambit" system you described actually fits effortlessly into the high-level AI model that I'm building right now. Almost too effortlessly! This kind of system would take very little work to build in, so I imagine you'll be able to achieve that level of control :)


While that is for convoys and escorts, I feel it can be applied across the board.
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Re: Customizing the "Attack" Command

Postby jonathanredden » Sun May 07, 2017 6:51 pm

(provoking more discussion)
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Re: Customizing the "Attack" Command

Postby BFett » Sun May 07, 2017 8:36 pm

Commands I'd like to see:

Attack target which enters this region (of space) – Creates a designated cubical region of space which should be defended if hostiles approach it. Very useful for defending important structures such as factories and research stations. (Downside being that ships may not act until structure is actually threatened)

Attack target which is x many kilometers away – Creates a bubble around your assets where if any hostile enters the bubble the ships begin to attack. Useful for ambushes if you are playing as a pirate or bounty hunter. (Downside being that ships can attack things behind them)

Attack priority on a per ship basis – Ability to tell an anti-fighter destroyer to focus on fighters and allow cruisers to fight bigger ships.

Protect this target - If target takes any damage ships will attempt to find source and attack it.
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Re: Customizing the "Attack" Command

Postby JanB1 » Mon May 08, 2017 12:19 am

jonathanredden wrote:(provoking more discussion)


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Re: Customizing the "Attack" Command

Postby Cornflakes_91 » Mon May 08, 2017 3:29 am

BFett wrote:Attack target which enters this region (of space) – Creates a designated cubical region of space which should be defended if hostiles approach it. Very useful for defending important structures such as factories and research stations. (Downside being that ships may not act until structure is actually threatened)

Attack target which is x many kilometers away – Creates a bubble around your assets where if any hostile enters the bubble the ships begin to attack. Useful for ambushes if you are playing as a pirate or bounty hunter. (Downside being that ships can attack things behind them)


soooo.... two "attack things in this volume" commands which are different... how?
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Re: Customizing the "Attack" Command

Postby Dinosawer » Mon May 08, 2017 3:47 am

The one is cubical, the other spherical :ghost:
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Re: Customizing the "Attack" Command

Postby Talvieno » Mon May 08, 2017 8:35 am

jonathanredden wrote:(provoking more discussion)

Thread necros are fine, but try to have something to add to the topic if you're going to do it. :)
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Re: Customizing the "Attack" Command

Postby BFett » Mon May 08, 2017 10:47 am

Dinosawer wrote:The one is cubical, the other spherical :ghost:

Very close, The cubical one can be placed in a region of space and is drawn by the player. The spherical one is based off of the location of your fleet and moves with your fleet as they move.

For example, let's say you have a fleet that is grouped together and patrolling a region of space that boarders a hostile faction. You'd use the spherical "Attack target which is x many kilometers away" command for that fleet so that if hostiles enter within the bubble they will get attacked.

The cubical "Attack target which enters this region (of space)" is stationary and is used to protect stationary structures (or resources) of significant value.
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Re: Customizing the "Attack" Command

Postby Cornflakes_91 » Mon May 08, 2017 11:21 am

BFett wrote:The cubical "Attack target which enters this region (of space)" is stationary and is used to protect stationary structures (or resources) of significant value.


And where is that different from a spherical command placed on the station/roid to protect?

Why differentiate? Its the same thing anyway.
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Re: Customizing the "Attack" Command

Postby BFett » Mon May 08, 2017 2:13 pm

Are you not reading what I type? They server two completely different functions. One is for proximity to the fleet the other is for defending a stationary object.

Another example: Say you claim a portion of an asteroid field as your own and want to have it protected. You make a volume (cube is arbitrary) and have ships assigned to defend that volume of space if unauthorized craft enter it.

The other checks for targets which are within a given distance from your fleet. This distance remains constant as you give your fleet commands. It is more of an offensive function than defensive.


I don't understand how I can make this more clear than giving you a diagram... which I will if you really need it.

Edit: This seems to have been sorted out on IRC. Basically a "protect my current target" command does the same thing as the stationary volume. The player would be able to set the distance at which a fleet would react if a ship came too close to a valuable structure or object. This could then be expanded to multiple objects which would provide the equivalent to the volume which is being performed and allows simplification of game logic because fleets are then able to use the same logic as any other entity when it comes to whether or not to engage a target within a portion of space.
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