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New Game Parameter Slider

#1
Was just checking the forum and couldn't see where we had discussed this and, as a recent topical discussion had mentioned this again, I thought I would ask for some thoughts on what others would like to see on the new game slider/s.

Josh will have probably thought of a hundred million different things for the slider/s to make a game more to our liking, but I bet we can think of a few he has missed and, would like to add to them!

Forgive me but I would like to see at least:

* Adjust Universe size (systems): 1-10-20-50-100-500-1,000-10,000-100,000-1m-infinite(ish)
* Adjust Planet/moon amount (max per system): 1-2-5-10-20-50-100-?
* Adjust Faction amount: 1-2-5-10-20-50-100-200-500-1,000-10,000-100,000-500.000-1m-infinite(ish)
* Adjust Neutral Faction amount: 1-2-5-10-20-50-100-200-500-1,000-10,000-100,000-500.000-1m-infinite(ish)
* Adjust Aggressive Faction amount: 1-2-5-10-20-50-100-200-500-1,000-10,000-100,000-500.000-1m-infinite(ish)
* Adjust Passive Faction amount: I think you get the idea
* Adjust Ship Graveyard amount:
* Adjust Random Pirate Base amount:
* Adjust Asteroid Field amount (max per system):
* Adjust Random Nebula amount (max per system):
* Adjust Random Loot Drop amount:
Ore Types and amounts

(obviously you can't have 500,000 different factions or even 500 factions in 1 system that would be mad. Perhaps the slider won't let you go over say 10 factions for 1 system etc then would let you go to 20 factions for 10 systems? Nevertheless, if it's on the slider then it's in!)

Can't think of anymore atm, at work :think:
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Re: New Game Parameter Slider

#2
Good thoughts! Here are some others that occur to me:

AUDIO
  • Music Volume: 0 <---+---> 100
  • Ambient Audio Volume: 0 <---+---> 100
GRAPHICS
  • Visual Level of Detail Range: Short-Range | Long-Range | Infinite
  • Reticle Crosshair Style: (various options)
  • Reticle Crosshair Color: (color picker)
UNIVERSE GENERATION
  • Frequency of Inhabited Worlds: None | Rare | Occasional | Common | Prevalent | Universal
  • Frequency of Random Wormholes: None | Occasional | Frequent | Continuous
  • Range of In-System Communications: Visual | Short-Range | Long-Range | Infinite
  • Energy Cost for Wormhole Transit: None | Low | High | Very High
  • Prevalence of Ice Resources: Low | Moderate | High
  • Prevalence of Metal Resources: Low | Moderate | High
  • Variation in Physics Constants Between Star Systems: None | Minor | Major
  • Technology Diffusion Rate: Low | Medium | High
  • Boost Capacitor Speed Increase: Low | Normal | High
  • Defensive Strength vs. Offensive Power: -1 <---+---> 1
  • Universe Size: Tiny | Small | Medium | Large | Huge | Infinite
  • Defined Ending:
    • Finance Victory: 100x more money than the next richest faction
    • Trade Victory: 80% of colonized systems have a trade depot controlled by your faction
    • Exploration Victory: 90% of universe mapped down to planetary resource level
    • Research Victory: 5 breakthroughs achieved in all of the major research branches
    • Military Victory: 10x larger military force than all other factions
    • Political Victory: 80% of universe under your faction's political control
More?
Post

Re: New Game Parameter Slider

#3
On the GFX layer I would like to control a little more...



Max Quality Models
:: Off - 100m - 1km - 10km - 100km (Logarithmic Slider)

Mid Quality Models
:: Off - 100m - 1km - 10km - 100km (Logarithmic Slider)

Low Quality Models
:: Off - 100m - 1km - 10km - 100km (Logarithmic Slider)

Cubes
:: 1km - 10km - 100km (Logarithmic Slider)


The difference here is simple.
The ship and station generation algos need to be be able to generate to a specific quality.

Cubes just generates one Poly for each ship
Low, generates the basic ship silhouette.
Mid, generates smaller details
Max, generates the grebles.

So if a ship is in low range you don't see the smaller details nor the grebles.
Seeing as the algo is procedural, this can be easily achieved, and could easily reduce memory footprint of 3D models.
(would also be cheaper to generate the lower quality ships)
°˖◝(ಠ‸ಠ)◜˖°
Toba - A Development Dump
Post

Re: New Game Parameter Slider

#4
Flat, some very good ideas there and the list could go on and on!

Regarding the universe (systems), colony, ore types and amounts etc etc etc, I think I would like it more specific. Rather than: tiny/small/medium/large/huge/infinite I would prefer something along the lines of: 1-10-20-50-100-500-1,000-10,000-100,000-1m-infinite(ish).

Reason is if I wanted to play a single system with say 10/20 other A I factions for a bit of fun to see who could conquer it I could do it.

Although, saying that, perhaps we could press a button to be more specific and depress it to have your system so there is less micro management?

Have another idea: one press button for "totally random universe setup" so you would have no idea what you are getting into...sort of like real life? :monkey:

Silver, really liked the gfx slider options this could benefit lower end machines to have more on screen action with less lag but at the same time would also help a higher end machine to have the best experience.
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Re: New Game Parameter Slider

#5
Starbuck wrote:Silver, really liked the gfx slider options this could benefit lower end machines to have more on screen action with less lag but at the same time would also help a higher end machine to have the best experience.
Amazingly, if Josh is smart (and he is)
He can use the same algorithm to generate each detail level, and allow you to change the detail level on the fly!
Imagine getting into a massive fleet fight of 5000 ships, and suddenly they are all just cubes, but you are still rocking your 60fps on a raspberry pi!

:thumbup:
(Josh, get your butt onto this when you do your next pass on graphics!)
°˖◝(ಠ‸ಠ)◜˖°
Toba - A Development Dump
Post

Re: New Game Parameter Slider

#6
Silverware wrote:
Starbuck wrote:Silver, really liked the gfx slider options this could benefit lower end machines to have more on screen action with less lag but at the same time would also help a higher end machine to have the best experience.
Amazingly, if Josh is smart (and he is)
He can use the same algorithm to generate each detail level, and allow you to change the detail level on the fly!
Imagine getting into a massive fleet fight of 5000 ships, and suddenly they are all just cubes, but you are still rocking your 60fps on a raspberry pi!

:thumbup:
(Josh, get your butt onto this when you do your next pass on graphics!)
I would love to see a 5000 ship battle taking place with retro styled graphic to just keep things running smoothly. The thought of that many ships (even in low quality) is simply amazing.
Image
Post

Re: New Game Parameter Slider

#7
Note that when you get into very large numbers like this, the load from AI becomes the limiter rather than from rendering. Currently each ship operates via a pretty sophisticated AI, choosing what to do and how to do it. You can't simulate 6000 ships individually with that kind of detail. Unless Josh adds some significant effort into flocking behaviors or formations (where the AI is done once for the entire squadron, and the individual ships run much simpler flight-only routines) this is still not possible no matter what rendering optimizations are made.

Would I like to see it? Sure. But I'd rather see work put into the far more common task of making normal battles with a handful of ships on each side great than worrying about edge case end-game battles.
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Re: New Game Parameter Slider

#9
DigitalDuck wrote: Absolutely. Rendering time increases less than linearly, but AI logic time increases more than linearly - each has to take every other ship into account.
Not necessarily, if you limit their "short term memory" you should be able to limit it to a linear increase.

Below some max density treshhold it increases with O(n!), beyond the treshhold with O(n).

with an aptly set treshhold the ai would even act more like a human, as we also only have limited memory.

This would require some more sophisticated databank handling, but that would give less ai memory load and more realistic behaviour.
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Re: New Game Parameter Slider

#10
MyrddinE wrote:Note that when you get into very large numbers like this, the load from AI becomes the limiter rather than from rendering. Currently each ship operates via a pretty sophisticated AI, choosing what to do and how to do it. You can't simulate 6000 ships individually with that kind of detail. Unless Josh adds some significant effort into flocking behaviors or formations (where the AI is done once for the entire squadron, and the individual ships run much simpler flight-only routines) this is still not possible no matter what rendering optimizations are made.

Would I like to see it? Sure. But I'd rather see work put into the far more common task of making normal battles with a handful of ships on each side great than worrying about edge case end-game battles.

Oh I definitely understand this, don't get me wrong.
The sliders are PURELY for people bottlenecked at GPU / VideoRam.

People bottlenecked at CPU need other methods of control.

Like Distance Simulation Quality.
Same slider ideas, only it's measured in Jumps away from the current system, and it controls just how detailed those systems are simulated.


Then we can look at how many unique AI are in the same system at once.

AI for combat ships doesn't have to be highly complex.
The master AI of the faction can pick targets for individuals, then all you need is a few cycles to calculate ideal positions for the individual ships, which can be staggered.

Yes, 5000 ships is going to be a pain to simulate.
No this wont last long at all! As most AI's will focus fire on the same target to kill the enemy swifter.
°˖◝(ಠ‸ಠ)◜˖°
Toba - A Development Dump
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Re: New Game Parameter Slider

#12
Whoa, almost forgot: we need to see that magical Inertia slider!

The folks who want an almost-Newtonian flight sim will want to crank that one down as far as possible.

Another one: the Age of Universe slider that determines how advanced and well-established other factions are when you enter a new game world.

And how about a Maximum Ship Size slider for when you're curious about what a universe without battleships and carriers would look like?
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Re: New Game Parameter Slider

#15
DigitalDuck wrote:
Flatfingers wrote:And how about a Maximum Ship Size slider for when you're curious about what a universe without battleships and carriers would look like?
How about a Minimum Ship Size slider for when you're curious about what a universe featuring battleships and carriers exclusively would look like? :mrgreen:
I did consider that until I thought, "How long would it take players to afford a starter ship?"

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