(a worker who doesnt know his boss is likely to work less motivated)
and as its a very broad topic i think its justified to have a new thread for that.
its related to the last talk in communications pipelines as to why should people leave their fortresses to talk
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+BFett: Well Cornflakes, what problem should we attempt to solve today? +Cornflakes: i was thinking about how to represent the "personal" factor in communication / social structures it isnt the same for a subordinate if his boss only sends him mails or videochats or actually talks to him in person +BFett: So, are we talking about Executive NPCs communicating to each other? +Cornflakes: too but i was thinking in more general terms can we make it favourable to "sit together" and talk? +BFett: as in docked at the same station, or meeting at a specific location in space? +Cornflakes: exactly remote comms > flying to the same location > being on the same ship/station/colony +BFett: ok I follow +Cornflakes: the question is: how to do that and how to do it for the player +BFett: ok, lets work out the NPC logic first then add the player into the problem +Cornflakes: gimme a sec to get my keyboard properly free +BFett: sure, The NPCs we are going to deal with are all executives correct? Since they make the decisions +Cornflakes: it would be nice if it also applied to workers you dont have to have some say to have your morale affected +BFett: Didn't Josh define workers as basically robots which do the task they are assigned? +Cornflakes: there are robotic and biological variations +BFett: (robotic thinking is what I meant) The Executive has direct control over these, just as the player does over AI in an RTS +Cornflakes: that doesnt matter a soldier also just does what he gets ordered +BFett: Well it does. You don't have to tell them why they need to go from place to place +Cornflakes: and still can have his morales affected +BFett: Um ok, let's just get the logic ironed out and worry about the details later then +Cornflakes: well, someone who gets ordered to do something should (over the long term) work better with regular "personal contact" to the one doing the ordering +BFett: okay, I have no idea how that would look in game. Do you currently have thoughts on how to represent the "personal" factor in communication / social structures? +Cornflakes: thats my problem how personal it is could just be done by the means of communications comms over more than 1 hop is "distant" (you have some relay between) if you are next to each other in your ships its "close" which would be better in terms of "socialise" than distant and being on the same ship/station is equivalent to sit on the same table and talk +BFett: agreed, also makes it much more difficult for hackers to over hear the conversation +Cornflakes: im not even thinking of that right now im thinking purely in terms of personal contact +BFett: ok, so are we looking for a why? Or just various ways it could be represented? +Cornflakes: well, why could be "because its more personal" as it would be more personal if we were in the same room instead of being separated by half a world +BFett: How are you defining the word "represent"? +Cornflakes: "showing, manifest" how it manipulates the surroundings +BFett: So, how to show the personal factor in communicating Isn't that as simple as just being at the same place at the same time? +Cornflakes: i'd say yes for the sake of a game at least +BFett: Ok, so what's the real question? +Cornflakes: how this affects the game how behave npcs differently depending on the social level +BFett: and social level being the difference between Executive and worker? +Cornflakes: no only how they are communicating +BFett: or various executives in a hierarchy +Cornflakes: how an npc behaves differently if im sitting with him on the same station instead of ordering him through half the galaxy by a text message +BFett: Would you behave differently if I was chatting with you in your house as opposed to the other side of the world? +Cornflakes: you arent ordering me if i were the employee and you the employer i would behave different (over the mid to long term) if all i ever get are text messages instead of a proper talk +BFett: Hmm, I guess that would be the case. I don't think I have any personal experience that quite fills those terms. Other than attempting to run a gaming group for a short time Even then we had coms so we could talk to each other +Cornflakes: that would be the better variation in game terms "being in ships next to each other" +BFett: face to face would be the best case wouldn't it, while chatting with people you met on a forum is worst case since you don't know them personally +Cornflakes: yeah +BFett: anyways, I'm going off topic a little. Sorry +Cornflakes: its on topic as long as it serves the understanding +BFett: I'm unsure how the AI would behave differently if they never saw their boss +Cornflakes: thats the problem how to do it gameplay wise +BFett: While Josh's AI is smart, I don't think we will have them trying to over turn an existing rulers corporation until player owned factions are in the game (which is basically what happened with the group I'm thinking of) Over the course of a year +Cornflakes: ...heh= ? +BFett: Started good, all friends, then some decided to add rules, restrictions, and eventually decided to take control of the website heh +Cornflakes: im confused now +BFett: OK, In LT we will have player owned factions when we do, we will have to keep strong rules over them if we don't, they will over power us and seize power kind of like an internal riot So, that's one of the ways that staying in direct contact with those who work for you is necessary. A group meeting +Cornflakes: hm +BFett: making sure everyone is on the same page. (horrible tangent to get to the point) So, that's my personal experience on what may happen if AI aren't managed (or see their boss from time to time) I guess for gameplay purposes this could be a real pain. +Cornflakes: mhm +BFett: Imagine having a massive multi system network of traders and having to visit each group every so many cycles +Cornflakes: well.. the "soft" variation could be to have lower effectivity of subordinates who arent contacted regularily thats what you have leutnants for you visit them, they visit the minions as you arent the direct superior, they are +BFett: yeah +Cornflakes: as long as you have somewhat regular meetings with them all should be relatively fine +BFett: maybe there would be a stat showing moral per system, and visiting a system with very low moral would encourage worker to perform their jobs faster thus increasing revenu +Cornflakes: but how would they work "faster"? less sloppy piloting? how to code sloppy piloting ... :think: +BFett: yeah, something like that, maybe they start using the mining drones more often and get better results instead of mining rocks at random locations or maybe they start competing with one another, trying to outdo their neighbors, or hire help to fend off pirates that won't let them get near the good ore kind of have to be creative, but there are a number of ways it could be coded in +Cornflakes: mhm... +BFett: (pirates would kill moral) +Cornflakes: well, first instance could be general "bad flying" how could bad or sloppy flying express itself lag times between actions... +BFett: flying in large circles before deciding on a rock to mine +Cornflakes: done mining ... mining beams off ... few seconds wait... slooow turn thats below the capabilites of the ship +BFett: sure, kind of like a worker who doesn't like his job. You can see it in the actions +Cornflakes: yeah i dont know a proper english phrase for that, but in german its "schleifen lassen" "dragging along" directly translated doing half motivated work.. being sloppy etc +BFett: dragging along translates well slow, lazy, a tired space pace* +Cornflakes: mhm +BFett: that would work well I like the idea So, does that answer your problem? +Cornflakes: well, half it answers how it could translate to the lowest level but how would your leutnants behave? when they were unmotivated ...hm.. they could have their "creativity" limited a motivated leutnant seeks to optimise what you order him +BFett: yep +Cornflakes: an unmotivated one just uses whats there with some thought of "meh" +BFett: and an unmotivated lieutenant would eventually effect his workers, lowering moral and motivation +Cornflakes: that too i guess we'd have to start at a general "morale" system for implementing that +BFett: yeah, some stat that appears when an organization reaches a certain mass +Cornflakes: well, why should it be limited to that? +BFett: or something.... +Cornflakes: when you are only a few people you can keep them in check pretty easy +BFett: yes +Cornflakes: so the morale thingy could be on a per ship basis we could handwave that pilots wont switch ships that often +BFett: and it's solely dependent on the leader of the organization being involved in the affairs of their business +Cornflakes: more and more indirect for larger organisations +BFett: or can the leader send out representatives which also boost moral? +Cornflakes: you forgot the leutnant part? you have a few layers of subordinates and everyone of them has to talk with his superior to stay "socialised" so a fighter pilot talks to his wing commander the wing commander with the captain of the ship etc or however the organisational structure would end up +BFett: sure, so the leaders manage the moral to the best of their abilities, and the "General" at the top doesn't have to visit everyone +Cornflakes: exactly so it works for any size of organisation +BFett: ok, that's good I think we solved the problem :) +Cornflakes: i guess so.