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Re: Subspace Tech, unification of all forms of travel

Cornflakes_91 wrote:Also: why should your view become distorted?

Your sight doesnt get messed up just because you are climbing up a ladder neither
No, but if you were to look at the ground you would see less detail because you are further away from it.

Alternatively, think of a camera without a varying focus. It works great when you're up close, but as you get further away the picture becomes blurry and unrecognisable.

As you go from being on the same 4D "depth" to the point where you no longer share any 4D "depth" with the object you're looking at, it could start in clear focus and then gradually distort (and become more transparent) to the point where it blurs and blends into the background.

Would be a good way of explaining why sub-space is grey, too. The grey background is actually a distortion of all the matter present on the "normal" 3D-space.
Games I like, in order of how much I like them. (Now permanent and updated regularly!)

Re: Subspace Tech, unification of all forms of travel

The thing is: your camera doesnt look in a direction where the depth does matter.

all your 3D eyes can focus to are objects that are on the same depth as they are, and providing the object doesnt mpve in 3D during the depth change, your focusing distance doesnt change at all.

All that would be visible to you is a transformation (if the object has different 3D cross section or simple disappearance if the object has a limited depth itself.

The only things that could happen are gradual transparency (only when "normal" matter is hyper-bi-conical in form, like i defined in the op) or maybe a apparent loss in size, but that is due the space compression effect and not due to normal 4d movement.

Re: Subspace Tech, unification of all forms of travel

Cornflakes_91 wrote:The thing is: your camera doesnt look in a direction where the depth does matter.

all your 3D eyes can focus to are objects that are on the same depth as they are, and providing the object doesnt mpve in 3D during the depth change, your focusing distance doesnt change at all.
You're assuming eyes are 3D, which is not the case as in a 4D universe everything is four-dimensional, as per your original post. Your eyes are converting a four-dimensional image of the world into two two-dimensional images, and your brain is converting the image back into a four-dimensional image.

In order for this image to be useful, eyes have the ability to focus on objects which are important, maximising the clarity of those objects by "tuning" into a certain depth. It does not need to do this for the other two dimensions, as they are parallel to the plane of the eyes (technically it's not a plane, but semantics).

Why would it be any different for "sub-depth"? The "fourth" dimension is also not parallel to the plane of the eyes, and therefore the eyes would also have to "tune" into a certain sub-depth. Objects which are important are those which can be interacted with, which are those on the same sub-depth as the observer; therefore objects at different sub-depths would be out of focus as they are at different sub-depths to that on which you are focussing.
Games I like, in order of how much I like them. (Now permanent and updated regularly!)

Re: Subspace Tech, unification of all forms of travel

for all practical purposes all we can see is 3d, or do you really want to overthrow the whole universe design?

your eyes adapted to see what there is to see, all (normal) matter aggregated in the same 3d plane, and the 4th dimension doesnt have any influence on common physical occurences
(or to word it different: all influence is to confine all physical processes to the same 3d plane)

so when all that happens is 3d, why should your eyes be able to see 4d?.

if there werent anything "special" to the depth, the whole game would have to be designed in a fully 4d manner, and not just some more or less special application.

if it werent that way, the game would have to be fully 4d, and not 3d with a "twist"

Re: Subspace Tech, unification of all forms of travel

I agree with the Original post. the presumption is that "physics" is universal; thus entities who travel through space will likely be doing thematically the "Same thing" but the exact method of how may be entirely different. the idea is the same, but the architecture and style will be different. Examples:

if we use "gravity" to deform space for Faster than light travel, we may have a "warp drive"-
likewise, the RAPTORIAN EMPIRE may use miniature black holes for their "Singularity drive"...
these faster than light drives are inherently the same right?

-------But are these aliens all using the same technology for space travel?

*The Kuv'mehtqu aliens, might have star ships resembling giant Manta rays with the mouth being an induction drive that sucks dark energy in and expels it out the back like a jet. dark energy is what gives expanding space "Speed".

*The Noricsshcku* may have a radical method of space travel based on Non-locality and quantum information (*possibly "Holographic Principle"): their drive changes the Q-information of a vessel so as to make it "exist" at another destination- I.E. teleport. (*or as He puts it, a round house kick.)

*The Cup'o'Kavine aliens use an anti-mater reactor to generate Massive quanties of tachyons, messons, or other backwards travelling particle to BEND time for their vessels.

*The magmal scilicate lifeforms we call "Rock-orc", a lifeform mostly immune to deadly radiation, they might be using absurdly powerful fission rockets with bussard scoops.

The poliquiyel aliens have sails that are permeable only on ONE side to most forms of energy, but reflective on the other side - they sail through the cosmos slower than the speed of light, but they have prefect suspended animation.

The Satorian aliens are bona fide Telekinetic, their technology grew from the insights regarding telekinesis - Somehow their star ships can manipulate the Higgs field responsible for inertia/mass, and travel as fast as they want because Einstien can not stop them...

So, are these all essentially "The same"? no, I do not believe so.

Re: Subspace Tech, unification of all forms of travel

Cornflakes_91 wrote:the thing is: creating convincing (techno) lore and assorted mechanics procedurally is helluva hard task.
that is a hard thing to do manually without resorting to technobabble completely.
also: we already have to agree onto some technological base, as everything is somewhat compatible with each other
UHM... finished. here ya go.
Re: LTFC - November - Creation edition- MY SUBMISSION

Post by Chad_hale » Sun Dec 07, 2014 8:01 pm

What if?... What if "Limit theory" was not fiction rooted presumably on an idealized enlightened world far away, and not in another time?
What if Limit Theory was our world, now? How could this be?
Imagine that Nikola Tesla had benefited the world with scientific accomplishments. That T.T.Brown really had developed electrogravitic technology. It is not the early 1900's any longer, it is now after the year 2000; Where would we be?
A fiction about GRAVITY TECHNOLOGY for Limit theory.
Okay, imagine a Light emitting diode (L.E.D.) a tiny electronic component that works like a light bulb. Keep this in mind as I take you on this little tour.
LESSON ONE: Fundamental Force Coupling - There are fundamental forces in physics; for this topic we discuss only two. Electromagnetic force (EM) is 1X10^42 stronger than Gravity (G). There are theories that imply, show, and prove conversion of one force into another. The tiny electronic part if it can convert a portion of EM force into G (*even at a greatly reduced efficiency than a ratio of1x10^42), you would get a rather astonishing effect! instead of requiring a Jupiter sized amount of negative mass energy to generate a "sloppy" warp field a Gravity Wave Projector drive can generate a warp bubble without negative mass energy. Gravity wave projector technology does not generate true gravitons, the effect is more so a bending of space akin to gravity or anti-gravity effects. As "True Gravity" is a property of mass, Gravity Wave projectors become less efficient in the presence of "true Gravity".

Grade school question: Why build starships with Gravity technology? the answer is that magnetism affects only magnetic materials while Gravity affects everything that has mass.

LESSON TWO: "Gravity is easy", the science of Spacecraft gravity and gravity based inertial compensation- Scientists point out that a Localized Gravity Zone (Or LGZ) applied to a spacecraft greatly mitigate the dangers of inertia posed by extreme maneuvering. Spacecraft engineers point out that Gravity Wave Projectors (henceforth G.W.P.) can be applied to deck plating through out the interior of a space craft to provide a healthy one G environment. GWP systems are highly energy efficient and are incorporated into most modern "Environmental/Life support" power allocation systems.

Grade school question: Why is a single large gravity generator the wrong way to go?
A single large gravity generator would act in a straight line to the center of other nearby masses; meaning the only place you could "Stand up" would be directly over said large gravity generator...

LESSON THREE: additional applications - G.W.P. devices applied akin to vectored thrust provide true Vertical take off and landing, enable non-aerodynamic flight and harmless Re-entry. Spacecraft attempting planet fall need not make meteoric descents at Mach 24. One can go from the ground to space or visa versa, at safe atmospheric speeds without damaging aerials, antenna, and drogues.

Wings in space? while trans-atmospheric flight is a ready excuse for the need to have "wings" on a space craft, the truth is that these structures can serve to house a wide variety of sensor systems that depend on long sensing elements, an minimal parallax (Two or more sensing locations separated by a distance) to accurately determine distances, speed, and direction. Wings can also be support structures for Diamond nanotube heat sinks that radiate excess heat out away from the body of the space craft and back into space. Thermionic power systems help to convert the heat in a spacecraft into energy for use, but such a system does have a limit. Wings can also serve as a large array of antennas for communications and sensor purposes. With thrusters (type 1: Hall effect- ducted fission exhaust, Type 2: EM drive- resonant microwave cavity, type 3: Gravity wave projector) being placed at the Ends of long Rigid booms you can increase the mechanical levering or torque on a spacecraft. Thus "wings" can be essential in helping a spacecraft to sense, communicate, and maneuver.

Jet engines in space? within a solar system G.W.P. intakes enable fission drives to gather fuel from the vacuum of space. Space isn't an absolute vacuum; It is estimated that there is one hydrogen atom per cubic meter. This is important as a spacecraft traveling at Fractional Lunar Distance (FLD) speeds, say 25,000 KmPH will gather fuel from space. How much? if the space craft intake is one square meter that one hour of travel gathers 25,000,000 atoms; but that is less than Avogadro's Number, which is roughly 6.02x10^23 atoms. translation - you need a more efficient method of gathering "H" to replenish fission thrust fuel. This is where GWP tech comes in handy. The external effect of a spacecraft GWP systems serves to draw fuel into to your intakes as if your intake radius is your spacecraft's cubic volume. The hard science fiction classic of electromagnetic Bussard ram jets doesn't work. Magnetism only affects magnetic materials, you need gravity to help your scoops to scoop fuel from space. Note: this kind of fuel replenishment can not be used in micro-warp (FAUST) nor Warp travel as Warp dynamics are applied to deflect everything from the path of the spacecraft traveling at those speeds.

Fractional Astrometric Unit Speed Travel (FAUST) - Space is an inconceivably vast almost empty nothingness. Even travel at FLD speeds seem to be a crawl if you are going from Mercury to Pluto. The weak space distortion effect caused by gravity technology can act as a multiplier for your current velocity. Some call this "Micro warp" travel. FAUST speeds are approximately ten times faster than Fractional lunar distance speeds. On average 250,000 Kmph. however, FAUST speeds require the G.W.P. systems produce a strong enough distortion to be enabled. thus the presence of a natural gravity well (natural gravity from a mass greater than your ship) greatly decreases the efficiency of G.W.P. devices.This causes the energy demand to exceed what our technology can generate and the "micro-warp" field fails. you can not ram a planet, moon, mini-planetoid, or even a space station with micro-warp.

Tractor beams: How do you get propulsion from a gravity wave projector? Gravity obeys the inverse square rule, and always acts from the center of a mass along a straight line to the center of another mass. That means all forces are in balance on a stationary object. What does the gravity wave projector do? it allows us to place a gravity like effect that is *NOT* acting from the center of a mass. Thus an imbalance, and the stationary object Moves. This is the key behind Anti-Gravity thrusters as well.

Distortion Shielding: the distortion effect serves to make spacecraft harder to hit. A spacecraft's "shields" are not feeble screens of energy to be defrayed at the slightest impact. this would be pitting your power plant and shield effectiveness against an enemies weapons and that is a waste of power! the best solution to space combat is that distortion shielding reduces the effectiveness of damaging attacks as less of the weapon effect can actually reach your spacecraft.

Refractive Cloak: Warp travel indirectly enables the use of a relativistic loophole enabling a spacecraft to travel effectively at Faster Than Light speeds. The side effect is that ships traveling at warp can not see where they are going, nor can the destination detect the spacecraft. As this effect is achieved with a warp bubble, it may be possible to design a variant of the warp drive to create a "Refractive cloak" that conceals a spacecraft from detection inside a warp bubble. However, as GWP becomes less efficient in the presence of true gravity neither FTL warp, nor refractive cloaking can function within the true gravity radius of a mass greater than the ship generating the effect.

LESSON FOUR: How is this not a "Reactionless thruster"?
1. A submarine doesn't carry tanks of water to squirt against the propeller; the submarine turns the propeller against the "Water" that is already there...
2. The use of this device does not create thrust; not anymore than a skier at the top of mountain has only muscle power to get to the bottom.
3. The Effect of gravity is accessing an OUTSIDE force. Thus gravity wave projectors can't be used as a closed system, this means that a gravity wave projector is not a perpetual engine or other overunity device!

LESSON FIVE: FTL Warp metrics - creating a warp bubble. Bending the fabric of space is a loophole around the Speed of light. You technically might not be moving, when you are traveling at warp. Thus you aren't actually going "FASTER", you are taking a short cut to cheat a way through the distance. Thus no time travel and warp travel does not impart any inertia.
Shaping a warp field to best serve a star ship is akin the science of aerodynamics and is thus named "Warp dynamics". A warp bubble can serve to deflect debris from a spacecraft path as the field may resemble a boat wake, only projecting this protective wake *Ahead* of the boat (*as well as around the boat). Obviously, if you are travelling at warp objects of equal mass or less than your space craft are pushed aside.

Grade School Question: Can you ram a planet with a ship at FTL warp?
No. Anything with a larger mass will defeat a warp bubble. This why there is no "Insystem" FLT. If you want to generate a warp bubble you need to move your spaceship to a Lagrange point. also, A spacecraft snared by a tractor beam can not establish a warp bubble for FTL Travel.

Grade School Question: "What about energy accumulation?"
Yes, particles of mater and energy can enter a warp field, but they roll out away with the area of space that expands back to normal behind your starship. A warp bubble is frictionless distorted space. So there is no gamma burst of cosmic death when you come to a stop after travelling at warp. Travel Via a warp bubble is not acceleration at all.

WARP TRAVEL NOTES: while Faust travel requires a weak distortion field (micro-warp) to function, such a field can be established near any LaGrange point or micro-gravity area of star system space. Warp travel between stars requires you to move to a location that lines you up with the "Gravity lane" (an imaginary path created by the gravity of one star, to an immediately adjacent star). To form a star to star warp you should be preferably as far from the center of the local star gravity well as possible and as close to the center of the gravity lane as possible. This isn't travel by a physical "warp gate" but a naturally occurring zone of space. (*Game mechanics wise, this prevents "gate camping" which is lame and lazy pirating. if I as a player have to work hard to get rich - pirates ought to have to work much harder to take it from me) this zone of space for warp-jumps could be as large an astrometric unit in diameter. Many of the hazards of warp jumping have been mitigated and intelligent agent programs will not enable a warp jump that exceeds safety parameters.

Because of the need to fully establish a warp bubble for jumping to a distant star there is a significant energy cost, and a time delay before warp can commence. Furthermore, warp travel occurs at a speed of One Light Day in distance, in the span of approximately one second time. Warp traveling the distance of one light year requires ten minutes. thus a six light year warp jump would require an hour of "Flight time".

Warp jump travel is blind as it is travel that occurs faster than the speed of light. In fact nothing can detect a ship travelling via warp not at the exit point, nor at the destination point. as warp travel is limited to the gravity lane between stars and travel must be between adjacent stars, space navies can be positioned to defend star systems and Some star systems may potentially have a tactical advantage for inter-stellar war in terms of resources and warp jump connections. Explorer space craft use a small warp probe called a "Path plotter" which probes the safety of the warp destination point of a ship before returning. if your probe does not return, it is probably not a safe location to jump to.

The state of computing in Limit Theory

Earth 2010 or so, Ray Kurzwil said, " My android phone is literally several billion times more powerful per dollar, than the computer I used when I was a student. It is also 100,000 times SMALLER. We'll do both those things again in 25 years. The computers then will be a billion times more powerful, and will be the size of a red blood cell." this predicition is followed by a paper detailing the technology that could make it happen. the paper referenced the work of several labs highlighting advances in "Atomic construction", "Single atom transistors", "Single atom Q-bits", "future quantum computing", "nanowire", "3-d architecture" and more. One of the most commonly used words in these papers and reports; the word "Now".

This is a Petaflop of Memory, and a petaflop of processing, in a computer the size of a red blood cell. What does this mean for limit theory? currently inconceivable computing power could occupy a spot that our eyes can not see. For all intents and purposes; computers will likely be printed into a solid article of furniture and children born today will likely develop a basic shared User Interface so that everyone knows where to look to use features.

Convergence of media will be complete, any media for any task that can be digitally communicated will be available through these computers. Entire lives can be recorded in a miniscule spec.
Information is virtually instantaneous and everywhere- Every person benefits from augmented reality and constant Virtual space education
Virtual space will be more vibrant, in some ways more so real than the real world. where a child of the 70's bought the massive toy collections of the 80's not knowing the damage that junk meant to the environment; a child of the 20teens like 2014 will have infinite space, infinite resources, and infinite toys to play with. these toys only exist in virtual space. not one plant was harvested to produce synthetic plastics, not one chemical was poured, not even a puff of factory smoke, not one slave laborer working at gun point, no rusting mammoth cargo vessels, not warehouses, no forklifts, no trucks, no retail store, no drive to the mall, and no drive home...

The vast majority of jobs as we know them today will not exist after 2030.

Holography... "auras" understood scientifically as natural free standing holography, turned into new display technology and superior medical diagnostic imaging.
Experiments with Gass discharge visualization and nano reflector arrays result in holographic displays with a resolution that is far beyond what the human eye can comprehend. as this technology is rooted in a scientific discovery concerning "auras", another application of this technology resulted in superior holographic medical diagnostic imagery.

Will life in limit theory be a post Apocalyptic Cyberpunk trash heap as exponential population explosion brings ruin to the universe?
Arc Plasma recyclers will strip matter down to individual atoms, A new set of "Hot-spectrum" electromagnetic sorters will sift the debris into individual chemicals to be stored in vacuum canisters. these canisters of raw chemical elements will inject atoms for Angstrom construction probes, that will create the "Ink" used by molecular printers. as the foundation of this future recycling technology is atomic construction the common person will give it the nick name "Nom".
Thus Arc recycling mountains of human waste and molecular printing new mega cities will be "nom-nom-nom".

Many devices will harbor Jellied helium super-cooled Lead or other forms of "Meisner effect" as INSULATION against magnetic lines of flux. This protects circuits from EMP, cross induction, and even larger construction from Magneto-strictive damage: such as Electric motors and power generators.

Inflatable outermost hulls: Space construction uses atmo-inflation of tailored hulls. Tailored and cut these sheets will take on specific shapes once inflated and leave gaps for the insertion of docking collars even hangar doors.

The sheets of outer hull is made of super strong materials like Anti-ballistic weave carbon nanotube yarns.
The outer primary hull and secondary hull have the space between them filled with an injectable gel. The gel is placed under 20 psi pressure between the layers. This Gel has a few properties:
___1.) Impacts on the outer hull would be spread through the gel, greatly reducing damage from kinetic energy.
___2.) The Gel is an impressive anti-radiation barrier.
___3.) The gel foams, expands, and hardens when exposed to oxygen. a breach in the hull allows the gel to expand into the gap contact with the air causes the breach to seal almost instantly. Breaches too large to be sealed by the expanding gel are countered by "Spider fab" systems that can run across the hull to build temporary patches. ... erfab.html

The Sheet of the outer hull, the gell properties and the hull inner sheet are dopped to function as thermionic power generation. Excessive heat from space, ship power plant, drives, and weapons, (even the occupants) serve to return some power to the ship's power grid.
Unbreakable hardpoints!

Insulated Cables can be "Sewn" through the Hull to create mounting points, transmit power, data, through the hull in either direction (to inside or to outside). Reaction control systems, countless sensors, and communication devices, can be firmly anchored to the hull via molecular hooks that hold on with meta-material enhanced Casmir force (1.5 trillion lbs of force) attachments won't come off and serve to contribute to the overall strength of the hull.

Re: Subspace Tech, unification of all forms of travel

Cornflakes_91 wrote:and now do that without resorting to a human mind but only using algorithms ... eneral.png
and ... FVdlU/view
and ... ffect7.jpg
and ... 00x269.jpg
and ... -07-12.png
and ... -07-12.png

They are the closest I can find...

Re: Subspace Tech, unification of all forms of travel

thats not what i ment.

create new technolore with its assorted effects and game mechanics without doing it manually.

a few variants of technolore are fine.

but if they all behave the same way, dont change the way the game works
what worth do they have?

wouldnt it be better to focus on one variant which does explain all "non classical" movement effects in the game and unifies them into one general framework
while also generating some interesting effects?

this is by no means any effort to belittle your efforts and lore building but only a question:
what do multiple lore variants give us?

Re: Subspace Tech, unification of all forms of travel

You have lost me I am afraid.

An electro-gravitic component like an L.E.D. works perfectly for Limit theory, let's call them Gravity Wave Projectors, or GWP for short:
1. Tractor beam - draws stuff to you, how? Gravity.
2. Replusor beam - Push stuff away from you, How? ANTI-Gravity.
3. Space ship environmental gravity - below deck plate, add a few GWP.
4. Hyper-efficient thrust - regular propulsion, with Anti-gravity enhancement.
5. Space fuel Scoop - Fore Gravity attractor, with bussard.
6. FAUST- Fast Astrometric Unit System Travel, aka Microwarp. Use of High power GWPs to generate a Localized Gravity Zone (LGZ) protecting the craft from inertia.
7. Distortion shield- an exernal scrambled Gravity field asserting a minimal distortion space (bubble) about the ship, making it difficult to be hit by direct attacks and defraying effect of explosions.
8. Cloak- A high power distortion shield creating a Omni-spectrum refractive sheath, aka invisible to heat, light, radar, magneto metric,
9. Star to Star Warp- an extreme LGZ + distortion bubble, with "warp dynamics" causing your craft to "surf" on bent space.

more detail than this, and I'd have to build one for you...

Re: Subspace Tech, unification of all forms of travel

First off:
Insensitive cornflakes strikes again! :oops:
Definitely cool lore you've written there, despite a few physical errors ;) (i've also read your other ones in the creative forum and rather liked them) :thumbup:

To the thing i wanted to say:

"different factions should use different technologies"

There is the question:
Is it worth to create a bunch of lore variants which in the end all explain the same process with different technobabble?

Is it worth the effort to create multiple mechanics that archieve the same things?

If we could generate lore with assorted mechanics procedurally that would be really cool.
But they'd have to be functionally different that the effort to create them would be worth it.

If one faction uses fusion drives and the other one singularity polar beam engines, but both behave the same and can be expressed using the same set of parameters and formulas, why bother with implementing the same mechanic twice?

Scale a few factors up and down, slap another name on it and a fusion engine becomes an antimatter engine, singularity polar beam or whatnot.

Also i personally prefer to create a universe with a given set of rules and all implications flow from there.

Like i did with my subspace idea, i didnt explicitly want to create a way to create shield penetrating weaponry, it just came from the simple rules i devised.

And not an endless stream of mcguffins to fill the currently needed niche

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