LTSL is already pretty much the best thing since the invention of the waffle iron, so let's make it one step better. I did a limited search but found nothing directly related to this, so if I'm missing a thing yell at me and send me PM's filled with angry shouty faces, ok?

We already know we can use LTSL to mod the game as a modder, but what about as a player? I'm sure the AI in Limit Theory are super smart and all, but I'm not sure I trust them. Probably going to all rebel and kill me one of these days, you know how it is with alien robots. The solution? Allow the player to write LTSL code to govern their autopilot and the autopilots of other ships.

Maybe the AI is really bad at tracking with turrets: I can open up my menu, get a console inside my ship, and write some code to make my turrets use a PID feedback loop instead of whatever lame stuff the AI gunner I hired does. OUT THE AIRLOCK, STEVE! WE DON'T NEED YOU EATING THE FOOD! WE HAVE BETTER TURRETS! Now, obviously if a player never wants to touch the coding interface, they shouldn't have to, but being able to set macros and keybinds would add so much to the game.

Josh mentioned liking the idea of having AI competitions where programmers would write code to control their fleets and dogfight, and the code to control ships is already there, so it seems like a good next step.

Let's get into the specifics.

Onboard computers:
Your "computer" is really just a window with a LTSL terminal and shell. You can write whatever programs you want to data drives, which would be physical inventory items in your cargo hold. One program (ie one LTSL file) is one data drive. (Perhaps standard data drives can be bought from the markets - you could buy an upgraded HUD that somebody wrote and that got patched into the game.) To install a program, you would take a datadrive and equip it to your computer. As long as the drive is equipped, you can use the program.

Programs
Programs can be run by typing in their name in the shell, by activating their data drive from the inventory, or can be set to autorun. Once running, programs will run in the background while you fly. Programs will have access to:

• Thrust and steering outputs
• GUI and HUD outputs
• Market/quest outputs and inputs
• Sensor inputs (scanner, position of other ships, etc.)
• Keypad/Mouse inputs (So they can respond to pressing buttons on your keyboard.)

Basically, anything that is a valid action for an AI should be valid for the programs you write. Autopilots, stock traders, or upgraded HUDs are all within grasp. The only things that are not within the reach of this are things the player cannot do. For example, LTSL could make the ship teleport, but that function would be disabled for ship programs. You get the idea.

Create remote control fighter swarms! Design a HUD that makes perfect sense to absolutely nobody! Play Snake while on the long warp rails! The possibilities are endless!

Don't know if it will make it into the game but it's a very neat idea

I'm pretty confident -- someone come back here and check me on this later -- that shortly after LT launches (or maybe even before), we'll start to see the writing of support programs.

These will be useful utilities that create interfaces inside the world of the game to simplify various gameplay activities.

For example, I recently mentioned in another thread that I expect to see editors written for customizing ships and stations. This can be done directly by modifying LTSL code, but few people are going to want to become programmers. I'm sure there'll be numerous ship/station editors written that themselves modify the LTSL scripts that govern in-game object appearances.

More to the point, I bet there will be similar editors and optimizing utilities written for darn near every mechanic and dynamic in the game. (Some will call these "cheats"; I won't.)

The greatest threat to LT will be the profusion of mods that simplify the game. These mods will be written because the existence of LTSL guarantees that they can be written. I have no doubt that there will be some players who complain that LT is "too easy" who, on being asked, will admit that they've downloaded and installed multiple game-management mods.

We'll see.

This is pretty much my dream, it was why I was interested in Notch's space game 0x10c

I would love to have a ship which has modules of sensors, weapons etc etc and be able to write code to make them function.

This idea was why I was excited for a game called Rawbots (which seems to be dead). It 'twas a game about robot building, and programming those bots, in !!SPACE!!. My main gripe about it was that the programming language was a visual one and had no option for using a text based one that wasn't annoying to use. While I don't want to build robots here, automated attack swarms for carriers to recreate homeworld drone frigates would be pretty sick and then you would have an excuse to say "TASTE MY DRONE FRIENDS YOU HEATHEN SCUM!" In a actual sentence. Why fight with your own ship when you can make your computer do it for you? In game programming is always very cool for me, but I have never seen it done elegantly. I hope LT can break that streak, whether at release or at the hands of modders.

Considering my love for writing AI, it's likely that I'll at least try to make the game play itself in its entirety...

Call me old-fashioned or a wet towel, but I do not believe in botting (neither in online or offline games) and I'm no programmer, either.

If the game requires you to learn a script language and do AI-coding to get a workable end result, it's failed as a space game for me. Same if I'm at the mercy of someone else to get essential features like sensors or subcraft to work at an acceptable level. Bonus hate if the script language allows the inclusion of malware codes, basically infecting your game assets with space ebola for that optimum fuzzy troll experience on the programmer's side.

Feel free to mod to your heart's content. But if the basic product is basically a script language compiler with the sign "do it yourself, player" taped on the back, then some has gravely misunderstood the concept of "game". Games are supposed to be fun. This however sounds more like a tool or a job.

-Hardenberg

Hardenberg wrote:Call me old-fashioned or a wet towel, but I do not believe in botting (neither in online or offline games) and I'm no programmer, either.

If the game requires you to learn a script language and do AI-coding to get a workable end result, it's failed as a space game for me. Same if I'm at the mercy of someone else to get essential features like sensors or subcraft to work at an acceptable level. Bonus hate if the script language allows the inclusion of malware codes, basically infecting your game assets with space ebola for that optimum fuzzy troll experience on the programmer's side.

Feel free to mod to your heart's content. But if the basic product is basically a script language compiler with the sign "do it yourself, player" taped on the back, then some has gravely misunderstood the concept of "game". Games are supposed to be fun. This however sounds more like a tool or a job.

-Hardenberg

LTSL is not Limit Theory. It's an entirely optional part of Limit Theory that can be used to create mods, but can otherwise be entirely ignored.

It's like complaining about a track creator in a racing game. You don't have to use it.

Hardenberg wrote:If the game requires you to learn a script language and do AI-coding to get a workable end result, it's failed as a space game for me.

X3 is "workable" right out of the box but if you take the MARS script for instance, it makes your turrets "smarter".
It still uses the same weapons, just a lot more flexible and attacks targets that it might actually hit instead of punching holes into space.

It's not required to play the game, but...

Gazz wrote:

Hardenberg wrote:If the game requires you to learn a script language and do AI-coding to get a workable end result, it's failed as a space game for me.

X3 is "workable" right out of the box but if you take the MARS script for instance, it makes your turrets "smarter".
It still uses the same weapons, just a lot more flexible and attacks targets that it might actually hit instead of punching holes into space.

It's not required to play the game, but...

and where is that countering hardenbergs point?