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Re: Warp Rails as Cargo Transfer method

#17
Hyper:

I still think that no basic functionality is a bad idea.

How about this:

Every rail can transport ships without basic upgrades
But the low-power conveyor rails dont have the power available to accelerate any ship to a meaningful boost.

Lets say the average "minimum cruise speed" is 1000m/s, and the rail only manages 500m/s for very small ships.
For ships it doesnt make any sense to use the rail, but for cargo it doesnt matter, as any speed is better than no speed.

Also: i dont see any logical reason to differentiate between cargo and data pods :think:
Both are just containers of different mass.
As a silicon+plastics block is the same for a rail, regardless of that block is in the configuration "usb stick" or the configuration resource block.
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Re: Warp Rails as Cargo Transfer method

#18
JoshParnell wrote:As for cargo, this sounds excellent. External cargo is already implemented as objects (I call them 'pods'). Pods could already use rails just like any other object! I will be sure to play with this idea after the update is out.

It makes a lot of sense to be able to establish 'cargo rails' between, for example, a refinery and a production station. Automated import/export without traders becomes an awesome tool (but will obviously be costly!) Now I'm even thinking about the possibility of establishing a 'drop-off-point' (DoP) where a temporary rail is set up between a mining zone and a nearby station, to allow miners to easily extract, package up, and eject pods of ore onto the rail to be automatically stored at the station (perhaps the station charges a nominal fee for DoP usage?)
What if a "decoupled" cargo pod counts as a ship with very low maneuverability?

It could fly into the rail and slowly head towards the destination.

It would be cheap! No actual transport ship needed! Teladi smellsss profitssss!
It would also be unsafe as hell with your cargo just floating around "unattended", ready for the taking.
But that's your problem if you do so.


With external cargo pods being "ships" it would also simplify cargo transfer because you only tell the pod to undock and fly to the target ship or station.
Your Galaxy Class Mommaship is bigger than the entire station you're trading with? No problem whatsoever. Don't dock at all.



I think that would be a bigger simplification because... ships flying from A to B already works, no? =)

Even better: You could watch the unloading process of a large freighter taking place. (And mess with it.)
If you can show something is happening, it's real. Much more so than a magic beam. =)
There is no "I" in Tea. That would be gross.
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Re: Warp Rails as Cargo Transfer method

#20
X3:TC/AP has been doing something very similar.

There is a Cargo Drone which is not a "ship" but is itself a cargo item that a huge freighter could be carrying in a cargo hold - not in a docking bay.

If you order a "drone sell order", the drone is taken from the cargo hold and becomes a ship.
It is (not explained or shown =) launched from an imaginary cargo hatch and appears outside the ship with the cargo loaded into it's own hold.
From that point onward it is a ship. You can order it around, buy and sell, tell it to collect floating cargo... ship stuff.

If such a drone "docks" with a ship, it places itself back into the cargo hold after unloading.


That - in principle - was the model for the "cargo drone trading" that you see in X-Rebirth.


So... not a new concept at all.
Only this time it's with external cargo pods.
There is no "I" in Tea. That would be gross.
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Re: Warp Rails as Cargo Transfer method

#21
I'm not saying the rails have no basic functionality, but that functiality be split into object classes. You couldn't just build a rail without a classed rail node, it would need to have a minimum of one class. Your subpar rail though only works at a certain moment, unless it is extremely subpar... as the rails divide their boosting power among all travellers, if the rail is empty of cargo a ship could probably ride it. Also classes prevent one from dumping cargo on a rail to slow it down and throw everyone off (a good tactic, but should be rather limited)

Data and cargo though, fine they are the same. What about civilians and haulers?
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Re: Warp Rails as Cargo Transfer method

#22
Hyperion wrote: Data and cargo though, fine they are the same. What about civilians and haulers?
What should be about them?

They are ships like all the other ones



Also: so you basically suggest that any rail generator has a "basic type" (ships, cargo etc) which it can do without addons and you can add modules for the other operation modes later.

So you may buy a "cargo rail" and add a "ship module" to that later on.

Did i get this right?
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Re: Warp Rails as Cargo Transfer method

#24
Gazz wrote: What if a "decoupled" cargo pod counts as a ship with very low maneuverability?

It could fly into the rail and slowly head towards the destination.

It would be cheap! No actual transport ship needed! Teladi smellsss profitssss!
It would also be unsafe as hell with your cargo just floating around "unattended", ready for the taking.
But that's your problem if you do so.
Considering cargo pods and other items with low to no maneuverability:
What will happen if they are transported by the rail and not collected at the end? Will they pile up in the "offload" area of the rail?

I guess there could be some interesting sabotage you can do, by putting stuff there intentionally ;) . Once I came out of a jump gate in X3 and did not move right away, studying the map instead. Then a freighter came out after me. BOOM. Game over. I'm thinking of effets like that :twisted: .
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Re: Warp Rails as Cargo Transfer method

#27
Rabiator wrote:I guess there could be some interesting sabotage you can do, by putting stuff there intentionally ;) . Once I came out of a jump gate in X3 and did not move right away, studying the map instead. Then a freighter came out after me. BOOM. Game over. I'm thinking of effets like that :twisted: .
That's pretty much the point of having "cargo pods" be minimal maneuverable ships.

Logistically (and AI wise) it would also be a lot easier if they were ships and not just containers.
Ships can be directed to a holding area.
With "just containers", some ship must go there, move the pod elsewhere, get the next pod... that's a lot more effort and coordination than telling the blocking container to MOVE IT.
There is no "I" in Tea. That would be gross.
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Re: Warp Rails as Cargo Transfer method

#28
Gazz wrote: That's pretty much the point of having "cargo pods" be minimal maneuverable ships.

Logistically (and AI wise) it would also be a lot easier if they were ships and not just containers.
Ships can be directed to a holding area.
With "just containers", some ship must go there, move the pod elsewhere, get the next pod... that's a lot more effort and coordination than telling the blocking container to MOVE IT.
I just want to note that it would be nice to still be able to build "grabships" to carry things around.
As an "upgrade" to having the containers float around by themself
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Re: Warp Rails as Cargo Transfer method

#29
That's pretty much the point of having "cargo pods" be minimal maneuverable ships.
We call them haulers. totally dumb cargo containers would presumably be as rabiator says.

Also, I sincerely hope we avoid the E: D cargo scoop nonsense, seeing videos of that, it looks pants-shittingly tedious... Better to have tractor beams or at least a large net.
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The conquest of Nature is to be achieved through Number and Measure.
It's better to have questions you can't answer than answers you can't question.

Imagination Fertilizer
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Re: Warp Rails as Cargo Transfer method

#30
Hyperion wrote:
That's pretty much the point of having "cargo pods" be minimal maneuverable ships.
We call them haulers. totally dumb cargo containers would presumably be as rabiator says.

Also, I sincerely hope we avoid the E: D cargo scoop nonsense, seeing videos of that, it looks pants-shittingly tedious... Better to have tractor beams or at least a large net.
Yeah! And let's call them Transfer beams! :monkey: :ghost: :shifty: :shh:
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