Missiles in the games

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Re: Missiles in the games

Postby FormalMoss » Thu Apr 20, 2017 12:02 pm

N810 wrote:Don't forget chaff...


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Re: Missiles in the games

Postby N810 » Thu Apr 20, 2017 1:00 pm

.... Not sure about those frenchies ??? :problem:
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Re: Missiles in the games

Postby Cornflakes_91 » Thu Apr 20, 2017 2:20 pm

N810 wrote:Don't forget chaff...


"Crap you throw out the back of your ship to distract missiles"

N810 wrote:Also you could probably bjust shoot it with another missile or your gun.


Which doesnt quite work in fighter vs fighter combat when theres a big clump of death on your tail
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Re: Missiles in the games

Postby N810 » Thu Apr 20, 2017 4:22 pm

I was referring to the big slow long range torpedoes.
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Re: Missiles in the games

Postby Cornflakes_91 » Fri Apr 21, 2017 2:00 am

N810 wrote:I was referring to the big slow long range torpedoes.


Yeah, for those hardkill systems will likely work better.
But things that are suszeptible to torpedoes can mount a bunch of turrets dedicated to fly swatting :)
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Re: Missiles in the games

Postby Cornflakes_91 » Sun Apr 23, 2017 4:17 am

in light of the missile swarm performance considerations, could we abstract big missile swarms as field functions?

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with missile swarms being just a "bubble" of entities with commonly handled calculations.

would remove most of the performance problems of missile spam.
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Re: Missiles in the games

Postby BFett » Sun Apr 23, 2017 9:50 am

Wouldn't most missile swarms only consist of at most 10-20 missiles where the group of missiles is handled as an individual object with destroy-able parts? This is how most games handle it in the MW franchise and I bet it works in a very similar way in RTS games.

So, in game a ship with 10 missile launchers which fire groups of 20 missiles a piece could be possible. The ship could fire all 200 missiles at the same time and all of the missiles could be tracked accurately and without sacrificing performance. This same technology could be applies to space mines as well with the only difference being the spacing between the objects.
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Re: Missiles in the games

Postby JanB1 » Sun Apr 23, 2017 12:20 pm

BFett wrote:Wouldn't most missile swarms only consist of at most 10-20 missiles where the group of missiles is handled as an individual object with destroy-able parts? This is how most games handle it in the MW franchise and I bet it works in a very similar way in RTS games.

So, in game a ship with 10 missile launchers which fire groups of 20 missiles a piece could be possible. The ship could fire all 200 missiles at the same time and all of the missiles could be tracked accurately and without sacrificing performance. This same technology could be applies to space mines as well with the only difference being the spacing between the objects.


Well, we could (once again) ask the guys from Egosoft. They had swarm homing missiles. If a few were enough to kill the target, the others searched for a new one. :D
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Re: Missiles in the games

Postby Cornflakes_91 » Sun Apr 23, 2017 1:34 pm

JanB1 wrote:Well, we could (once again) ask the guys from Egosoft. They had swarm homing missiles. If a few were enough to kill the target, the others searched for a new one. :D


i have no idea how you got from "group many missiles into single objects" to swarm missile AI :ghost:

BFett wrote:Wouldn't most missile swarms only consist of at most 10-20 missiles where the group of missiles is handled as an individual object with destroy-able parts?


why would missile swarms be limited to 10-20 missiles?

say the ship with the 200 missile salvo.
group them into one and handle all of them as a single blob.
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Re: Missiles in the games

Postby JanB1 » Sun Apr 23, 2017 2:21 pm

Cornflakes_91 wrote:
JanB1 wrote:Well, we could (once again) ask the guys from Egosoft. They had swarm homing missiles. If a few were enough to kill the target, the others searched for a new one. :D


i have no idea how you got from "group many missiles into single objects" to swarm missile AI :ghost:


Because that "bubble" technique wouldn't really work with that. Or it would just be really hard because you would have to group missiles with the same target to one group, and whenever they search a new target you have to make a new group to make this "bubble".
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Re: Missiles in the games

Postby Dinosawer » Sun Apr 23, 2017 2:31 pm

And this is hard how?
I mean, I could write that in five minutes and I'm no Josh :ghost:
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Re: Missiles in the games

Postby Flatfingers » Sun Apr 23, 2017 2:33 pm

Cornflakes_91 wrote:in light of the missile swarm performance considerations, could we abstract big missile swarms as field functions?

That's actually a pretty creative idea.

My immediate guess is that fields will make more sense either for A) overlapping continuous areas/volumes consisting of numeric "strengths" radiating from central points, with falloff governed by some simple mathematical function (such as an exponential), or B) an area/volume containing many thousands, or tens or hundreds of thousands, of invisible point effects.

If that guess is near accurate, then the field notion might not be the best solution for 200-500 visible objects. If it got closer to 10,000 missiles at a time :shock: then a field starts to look better, but I still don't know how it handles the fact that missiles generally ? need to be rendered on-screen.

Just thinking out loud; contradict at will. :P
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Re: Missiles in the games

Postby Cornflakes_91 » Sun Apr 23, 2017 2:54 pm

Flatfingers wrote:
Cornflakes_91 wrote:in light of the missile swarm performance considerations, could we abstract big missile swarms as field functions?

That's actually a pretty creative idea.

My immediate guess is that fields will make more sense either for A) overlapping continuous areas/volumes consisting of numeric "strengths" radiating from central points, with falloff governed by some simple mathematical function (such as an exponential), or B) an area/volume containing many thousands, or tens or hundreds of thousands, of invisible point effects.

If that guess is near accurate, then the field notion might not be the best solution for 200-500 visible objects. If it got closer to 10,000 missiles at a time :shock: then a field starts to look better, but I still don't know how it handles the fact that missiles generally ? need to be rendered on-screen.

Just thinking out loud; contradict at will. :P


yeah, field function is maybe not the right term.

aggregate object may be a better word.

but the basic idea of "dont handle them individually" stays the same.

if that is workable we can get all the shiny things :D :monkey:
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Re: Missiles in the games

Postby BFett » Sun Apr 23, 2017 6:36 pm

Cornflakes_91 wrote:
Flatfingers wrote:
Cornflakes_91 wrote:in light of the missile swarm performance considerations, could we abstract big missile swarms as field functions?

That's actually a pretty creative idea.

My immediate guess is that fields will make more sense either for A) overlapping continuous areas/volumes consisting of numeric "strengths" radiating from central points, with falloff governed by some simple mathematical function (such as an exponential), or B) an area/volume containing many thousands, or tens or hundreds of thousands, of invisible point effects.

If that guess is near accurate, then the field notion might not be the best solution for 200-500 visible objects. If it got closer to 10,000 missiles at a time :shock: then a field starts to look better, but I still don't know how it handles the fact that missiles generally ? need to be rendered on-screen.

Just thinking out loud; contradict at will. :P


yeah, field function is maybe not the right term.

aggregate object may be a better word.

but the basic idea of "dont handle them individually" stays the same.

if that is workable we can get all the shiny things :D :monkey:



So a collection of objects which behave in a similar manner? Hmm, sounds familiar. :monkey:

I'm not convinced that A) we should have a spam ton of any entities in a confined volume in LT, B) having a spam ton of objects in a battle would have reliable hit detection C) a spam ton of objects would be fun for the player and not game breaking.

When I think of a large battle I usually think of no more than 400 ships shooting weapons at each other with a variety of weapons. Josh has promised roughly a quarter of that. But none of this matters since we shouldn't have missiles with infinite flight times which just float around and wait for an enemy to enter the system.
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Re: Missiles in the games

Postby Grumblesaur » Mon Apr 24, 2017 12:54 am

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