Missiles in the games

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Missiles in the games

Postby makzihan » Thu Sep 18, 2014 5:17 am

I am a great fan of Air fight games and I have played a lot of such games. I always have a bad experience with the missile of the air fight games as most of them take more time to load and very bad accuracy. I wish if there any missile in the game it will be more first and more accurate.
Thanks.
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Re: Missiles in the games

Postby Katorone » Thu Sep 18, 2014 5:23 am

I wish you'd actually reply to one of your own topics instead of making a bunch of random new ones.
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Re: Missiles in the games

Postby Etsu » Thu Sep 18, 2014 6:25 am

I did not understand the topic very well, but regarding missiles...

There are different ways to approach it. For example:

    - How missiles work in real life that it can provide inspiration?
    - How missiles could work in an hypothetical future?
    - How missiles work in other games?
We could also try to create something new and never seen before, not necessarily the best idea as it might seem at first.
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Re: Missiles in the games

Postby Victor Tombs » Thu Sep 18, 2014 7:00 am

I'm looking forward to salvo after salvo of missiles. In a similar manner to those we have seen in some of Mr Parnell's videos. It's a really impressive firework display and reminds me of those medieval battle films where the skies turn black with arrows. :D

As to their accuracy and ability to inflict damage I will leave that to Josh and those who enjoy the specifics of such things. ;) :angel:
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Re: Missiles in the games

Postby Sasha » Thu Sep 18, 2014 7:06 am

If missiles were realistic they'd be far too powerful.
Unlimited range, perfect accuracy, massive damage, smart targetting...
http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=jspEovlEK-w
This is a relatively small missile compared to some that are available
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Re: Missiles in the games

Postby Cornflakes_91 » Thu Sep 18, 2014 7:47 am

makzihan wrote:I am a great fan of Air fight games and I have played a lot of such games. I always have a bad experience with the missile of the air fight games as most of them take more time to load and very bad accuracy. I wish if there any missile in the game it will be more first and more accurate.
Thanks.


I actually have quite the opposite experiences with missles is flight sims.

In hardcore simulations either zero or infinite reload times (depending on what you count, time between launches or reload to fresh magazine) and perfect accuracy.

The only times i miss with missles its when my target is more maneuverable than my missle or i fire the missle in an angle that it cannot correct its course in time


So i'd personally opt for missles that can actually miss, due to jamming or a target with good cloak...
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Re: Missiles in the games

Postby Flatfingers » Thu Sep 18, 2014 12:49 pm

Sasha wrote:If missiles were realistic they'd be far too powerful.
Unlimited range, perfect accuracy, massive damage, smart targetting...

Precisely. That's actually why I tend to avoid using missiles in games (or avoid games that heavily use them).

You basically have two options if a game allows a vast cloud of missiles to swarm toward you:

1. Run. Run for your life.
2. Erect some kind of anti-missile defense.

In the first case, you're no longer in combat; you're just trying to get away.

In the second case, you're handing gameplay over to the random number generator: what percentage of the missiles will impact? /diceroll

How is either of those more fun than active gameplay where a fight means you're making a sequence of gameplay choices for cleverly using the local environment to apply force against your opponent?

I'm not saying ranged weapons are always bad in a game, or that missiles can't be fun in a space game. I'm saying that firing a lot of them at once -- especially the more realistic they are -- becomes less fun in a game because they can easily turn into a "win button."

What might be interesting is a tradeoff. What if missiles didn't have internal guidance, but had to be controlled from the firing ship using that ship's limited number of CPU cycles? And what if shifting CPU over to missile guidance meant not much CPU remaining for sensors, or defenses?

Now we're talkin'. :)
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Re: Missiles in the games

Postby Talvieno » Thu Sep 18, 2014 1:46 pm

You forgot an option.

3. Tank those missiles like a champ.
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Re: Missiles in the games

Postby Gazz » Thu Sep 18, 2014 2:00 pm

Catch 'em with your teeth, you mean.
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Re: Missiles in the games

Postby Talvieno » Thu Sep 18, 2014 2:01 pm

In some games they're little more than a minor nuisance.
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Re: Missiles in the games

Postby Gazz » Thu Sep 18, 2014 2:09 pm

In GalCiv they are just a name for one of three damage types and in stats and operation identical to the other two.

In the X games it depends on what S&M you are running. Missiles can be anywhere from OMGWTF powerful to practically inconsequential.

In Elite they were useful but very restricted assets that I rarely used. And they cost what... 30 Cr? (too lazy to look it up =)

There have been a whole bunch of threads on missiles already. This one started with little more than the mention of the word "missile"...



(and if makzihan is just seeding posts to backfill with ad links later - that's not going to work =)
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Re: Missiles in the games

Postby Idunno » Thu Sep 18, 2014 2:50 pm

Gazz wrote:In GalCiv they are just a name for one of three damage types and in stats and operation identical to the other two.

In the X games it depends on what S&M you are running. Missiles can be anywhere from OMGWTF powerful to practically inconsequential.

In Elite they were useful but very restricted assets that I rarely used. And they cost what... 30 Cr? (too lazy to look it up =)

There have been a whole bunch of threads on missiles already. This one started with little more than the mention of the word "missile"...



(and if makzihan is just seeding posts to backfill with ad links later - that's not going to work =)

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Re: Missiles in the games

Postby Flatfingers » Thu Sep 18, 2014 4:43 pm

Talvieno wrote:3. Tank those missiles like a champ.

FTFY. :) Limit Theory != conventional "holy trinity"-based MMORPG.

The second option I listed is basically the tanking option, if you like. It's about absorbing some percentage of the cloud of missiles.

Actually, this discussion reminds me of the debate over letting wormholes magically appear anywhere inside any star system. Numerous commenters seemed very excited by the possibility of the terrible swift damage they could serve on unsuspecting opponents. I can see that fun, too... with my gamer hat on.

When I switch to my let's-pretend-I'm-a-game-developer hat, though, I have to ask: is that fun? What about when you're the defender: still fun to have NPC fleets appear in your back yard and destroy you with no warning or opportunity to prevent your destruction?

Offenses need complementary defenses. Finding that balance of forces is part of good game design. It's not as exciting to think about as a gamer who enjoys the feeling of imposing destruction on others, but that's one reason why not everyone wants to be a practical game designer. :)

When I objected to randomly-appearing wormholes as creating too much of an imbalance in actual play, I was accused of favoring boring defense, and I learned a new dirty word: "turtling."

I get the feeling something similar might be going on here in talking about being able to unleash vast numbers of missiles. It's cool to picture if you imagine only yourself doing the unleashing. But how will you feel when you're on the receiving end and there's nothing you can do about it -- because defensive capabilities are just boring "turtling" -- and all your hours of ship designing and production are gone, just like that?

What I'm advocating is not an impregnable defense, but a balance of power. In designing competitive play, offenses need comparably-powered defenses. There can still be a winner, but winning ought to reward active and clever thinking, making the best use of the environment and the limited resources you've got, not just who can throw the most rocks the fastest at the other.

And I'm saying this stuff about missiles here instead of the older missile threads because I hadn't thought of it until now. :D
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Re: Missiles in the games

Postby MyrddinE » Thu Sep 18, 2014 5:51 pm

There is a good answer to the 'Missiles create boring gameplay' argument: Active Defenses.

This could be point defenses that you need to divert power to; EMP burst that disables nearby missiles (gotta let them get close... but not too close!); anti-missile missiles that you need to actively choose to deploy; chaff and flares (or any mechanic where you need to identify how you are being attacked and respond with the appropriate countermeasure); etc.

There are many ways to make defending yourself against missiles part of the engagement, part of the fun, other than simply running away or tanking the damage.
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Re: Missiles in the games

Postby Talvieno » Thu Sep 18, 2014 5:57 pm

Flatfingers wrote:
Talvieno wrote:3. Tank those missiles like a champ.

FTFY. :) Limit Theory != conventional "holy trinity"-based MMORPG.

It's not, but I recall very clearly several of Josh's escort fighters taking hits from a decent number of missiles (launched from a capital ship) without suffering extreme damage. Missiles can be tanked, just like anything else. You just decide not to dodge. :P
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