jawdan wrote:

JoshParnell wrote: Also, characters will not be able to carry things over between universes. You will be able to import/export ship designs, but other than that, transfer between universes is pretty much minimal - the idea is to have to start a whole new life if you want to explore a new universe!

However, wouldn't the Ulterior Seeds mentioned allow you to do that?
viewtopic.php?f=5&t=282

Ah yes, perhaps this would allow you to see the same factions or ship designs or something in a new universe, if you use the same sub-seed. But you'll have to work to regain ownership of whatever you owned in the first universe

Hm, on review, I wasn't very clear or on topic. Indeed I was talking about universe attributes rather than character possessions. Sorry guys.

going back to the back-story
you could just do a set choice system at the beggining of a new game that somewhat changes the "starting area" for the player if that's possible

You mean parameters for universe construction?

[x] Rich World
like in MOO?

There are a few threads on bosses, special items, and non-PG (starting) systems already.

In regards to starting at the beginning. What about having the beginning be something as simple as- you inheriting some money and a ship from a relative or something of the sort. From there you are open to do as you want. This will keep with Josh's original idea of there not being character classes and story lines and the such.

Have the game start at a "beginner" space station. There could be some starter missions to give the player an idea on how to do certain tasks. How to mine an asteroid, how to fight, how to command other ships, that sort of thing.

Since there are no levels or experience points per say these missions are optional. If I have already played the game with another character I probably wont care about doing the starter missions again.

Just some thoughts to throw out there

In addition it would be cool to be able to choose a starter ship. Cargo freighter, fighter, exploration..that sort of thing.

I couldn't agree more.
Different "game starts" don't even need to be more complex than initial assets and base relations to everyone.

Are you a bounty hunter with a decent fighting ship that only the nearest faction likes?
A merchant who is a blank slate to everyone?
Different folks, different strokes.

X3: Reunion (I think) even has a Khaak start where absolutely everyone hates your guts. Sure, why not? No one said you can survive this! =P
The game start description is something like "Yep, you're going to die."

Gazz wrote:I couldn't agree more.
Different "game starts" don't even need to be more complex than initial assets and base relations to everyone.

Are you a bounty hunter with a decent fighting ship that only the nearest faction likes?
A merchant who is a blank slate to everyone?
Different folks, different strokes.

X3: Reunion (I think) even has a Khaak start where absolutely everyone hates your guts. Sure, why not? No one said you can survive this! =P
The game start description is something like "Yep, you're going to die."

Yes, I agree, I mean...that's more or less what defines a pilot in this game anyway, assets and relations, so it doesn't leave much out I guess that part's pretty easy. A more interesting question, I think, is how to generate a text-description of the "back story" that led to those circumstances. That way, it really feels intentional/purposeful, not just a roll of the dice.

JoshParnell wrote: A more interesting question, I think, is how to generate a text-description of the "back story" that led to those circumstances.

Maybe not at all? =)

"Hardcode" specific game starts. The ship designs as well as amount of and exact type of equipment can be PG based on rules and the locally available items / ship designs - just like you generate an AI ship. That way the player ship and equipment logically fits into the region of space.
And every game start is a little bit unique, depending on where you start.
You will probably end up with some sort of ship templates anyway because when you want your AI to generate a mid-sized freighter, you won't want to reinvent the wheel every time.

As for actual game start ideas or back stories - you could post in the suggestion forum that you want specific suggestions for that... and what needs to be covered at the minimum, such as assets, equipment, estimated difficulty level...
I'd give odds that that gets you more than 2 usable ones.


Also, as an extreme case of a "Story" setup:
Starting the game in the Ship Designer
.

happyguy142 wrote:In regards to starting at the beginning. What about having the beginning be something as simple as- you inheriting some money and a ship from a relative or something of the sort. From there you are open to do as you want. This will keep with Josh's original idea of there not being character classes and story lines and the such.

Have the game start at a "beginner" space station. There could be some starter missions to give the player an idea on how to do certain tasks. How to mine an asteroid, how to fight, how to command other ships, that sort of thing.

Since there are no levels or experience points per say these missions are optional. If I have already played the game with another character I probably wont care about doing the starter missions again.

Just some thoughts to throw out there

In addition it would be cool to be able to choose a starter ship. Cargo freighter, fighter, exploration..that sort of thing.

I personally really like this idea. It seems like a neat, simple, elegant soloution for start-ups.

I feel like I'm stating the obvious here, but why not take a little bit of inspiration from the route that another procedurally generated space sim game, currently under development, is opting for?
A handful of simple starting options, each with various low-end ships, each with set ups that would lend towards the players preferred style of play. For example, a ship geared towards combat starting in an unlawful area of whatever sub-seeded universe you choose, if you want to be a pirate/bounty hunter type. Or a slightly larger ship with more cargo hold and a few credits/merchandise ready to sell, starting in a somewhat developed area?
I'm sure you could customize this concept to achieve what you're going for, without pigeon-holing the player into something too specific and story/class orientated. After all, this is supposed to be a true sandbox style game, right?

Prometheus wrote:I feel like I'm stating the obvious here, but why not take a little bit of inspiration from the route that another procedurally generated space sim game, currently under development, is opting for?
A handful of simple starting options, each with various low-end ships, each with set ups that would lend towards the players preferred style of play. For example, a ship geared towards combat starting in an unlawful area of whatever sub-seeded universe you choose, if you want to be a pirate/bounty hunter type. Or a slightly larger ship with more cargo hold and a few credits/merchandise ready to sell, starting in a somewhat developed area?
I'm sure you could customize this concept to achieve what you're going for, without pigeon-holing the player into something too specific and story/class orientated. After all, this is supposed to be a true sandbox style game, right?

The problem with this is that it has a feel of "player classes," which I think is a feel that Josh wants to avoid. And I think that you shouldn't be able to control your starting place by what ship you chose. You just start where you start, no matter if that area seems conducive to pirates.

Personally, I like the idea of inheriting money etc. and starting with some sort of generic ship that shouldn't be too hard too upgrade from.

Why not just choose a ship and get dropped in a random part of the universe, no backstory but the one you make for yourself.

The Hedge Knight wrote:Why not just choose a ship and get dropped in a random part of the universe, no backstory but the one you make for yourself.

I think it has to do with the level of immersiveness. Players want to feel as though the universe existed before them, and will exist beyond them. Just dropping them off may make it seem like the universe came into being with them.

Granted, in dwarf fortress, when it simulates the world, it's not like the different events actually have anything to do with the player themself. So what does it matter that X super being came into existence and was destroyed by such-and-such? It *may* only be briefly mentioned, if at all, so your point is valid.

Personally, I find this one of those things that adds to the feel of it, however, if due to programming constraints or if this features takes away from development time better spent elsewhere, I can happily live without.

So than DF style? Quick paragraph or two about the universe, then choose where you drop, the end?

Maybe the player can start on a space station with some starting money, they can then choose how they start with their money. Spend it all on a small warship or a bunch of trading supplies and a shoddy freighter or something else to their liking.

Prometheus wrote:A handful of simple starting options, each with various low-end ships, each with set ups that would lend towards the players preferred style of play. For example, a ship geared towards combat starting in an unlawful area of whatever sub-seeded universe you choose, if you want to be a pirate/bounty hunter type. Or a slightly larger ship with more cargo hold and a few credits/merchandise ready to sell, starting in a somewhat developed area?

This particular idea is already suggested here, though it hasn't been posted in recently. It has been confirmed in the Degree of Sandbox-ness thread that you will be able to do a certain amount of universe customization by adjusting variables used by the PCG engine, so you can set up the starting conditions and general atompshere of your universe to a certain extent, but it is unclear how 'guided' a start will be available for those who would like to head in a specific direction right off the bat.