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Re: Scanner 2.0

#121
ThymineC wrote:
Cornflakes_91 wrote:Because of gameplay.
The player wont be able to interact with them because if they dont adhere to one of the established standards they wont adhere to ANY of the standards.
No trade because they dont have an interchangeable currency.
No communication because of incompatible communications protocols.
No useable equipment because of different hardware connectors.
No docking because of different connectors.
[Insert Long list of incompabilities]
^ Boom. ^
Thirded.

It's a great idea to say that perhaps this corner of the universe won't think of it or something along those lines, but realistically, for gameplay concepts, we're going to need to put in a few different things regardless of how difficult it is to suspend one's belief for it.

Another example, is that even if you didn't have a universal currency, if you only used the barter system, one corner of the universe may have never seen gold. It may be the most valuable thing to some factions on the opposite side, but to the group who have never seen it? Worthless (gold might be a bad example though).

Technology, identification, commodities, currency... There are some that need to be universally accepted.
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Re: Scanner 2.0

#122
ThymineC wrote:
Draglide12 wrote:I'm not opposed to that, but even in EVE there are pirate factions.
I think pirates would still include ID-broadcasting hardware for identifying each other, but in general they wouldn't broadcast IDs to other ships in general.

Can we design the system like that? Since IDs are something that are communicated to other vessels as a handshake protocol and not just broadcasted everywhere, can we create "profiles" to specify what kind of agents we want to communicate our IDs to?
That's actually a good idea. I think it makes a ton of sense to be able to decide which factions you want to transmit your ID to - or more specifically, which factions you DON'T want to transmit your ID to.

However... then that does make gameplay in enemy areas more difficult, if no enemy ship is going to let you know where they are.
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Re: Scanner 2.0

#123
I'm still not really sure why the stealth is inherently reliant on having IDs, which just make your ship easier to detect...

Oh well, as long as it isn't mandatory to have them activated. I'm not opposed to having IDs, I think it's a good idea, it just seemed silly to think that everyone was just flying around with beacons regardless of anything and everything.
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Re: Scanner 2.0

#124
Draglide12 wrote:I'm still not really sure why the stealth is inherently reliant on having IDs, which just make your ship easier to detect...

Oh well, as long as it isn't mandatory to have them activated. I'm not opposed to having IDs, I think it's a good idea, it just seemed silly to think that everyone was just flying around with beacons regardless of anything and everything.
This doesn't affect how stealth would work. If for whatever reason you want to use stealth, then you just turn your ID off and normal stealth mechanics apply - for instance, how much radiation you're emitting, how large the surface area of your ship is, etc.
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Re: Scanner 2.0

#125
ThymineC wrote:
Draglide12 wrote:I'm still not really sure why the stealth is inherently reliant on having IDs, which just make your ship easier to detect...

Oh well, as long as it isn't mandatory to have them activated. I'm not opposed to having IDs, I think it's a good idea, it just seemed silly to think that everyone was just flying around with beacons regardless of anything and everything.
This doesn't affect how stealth would work. If for whatever reason you want to use stealth, then you just turn your ID off and normal stealth mechanics apply - for instance, how much radiation you're emitting, how large the surface area of your ship is, etc.
exactly this. :)
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Re: Scanner 2.0

#126
Talvieno wrote:Mhm, and that's why we proposed IDs for ships, so that you could turn them off - otherwise you'll always be visible to absolutely everyone in the system. This scanner change enables stealth gameplay. I think you could even have AI that would group together and go on raids while running silent without IDs on, but among friendlies, it makes sense to turn it back on.

This is what I had issue with. This made me... If it worked liked this I wouldn't bother buying the game.
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Re: Scanner 2.0

#128
I love the idea of stealth gameplay. I can't stand the idea of everyone being auto-detect 24/7.

I don't like the idea of everyone always knowing exactly where I am simply by merit of existing. It's fucked up.
Last edited by Draglide12 on Wed Apr 30, 2014 2:01 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Scanner 2.0

#129
Draglide12 wrote:I love the idea of stealth gameplay. I can't stand the idea of everyone being auto-detect 24/7.

I don't like the idea of everyone always knowing exactly where I am simply by merit of existing. It's fucked up.
Ahhhh, I misunderstood, then, I thought you didn't like it. :P Anyway, yeah, that's exactly what is going to happen if IDs aren't implemented. As it stands, there is absolutely no stealth element at all in the game, unless you hide directly behind an asteroid, planet, or star. And stay there.
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Re: Scanner 2.0

#131
Draglide12 wrote:If they want to know where I am they should have to scan for me. The ID should serve to make me easier to scan, it shouldn't be an absolute nix on anonymity.
Easily fixed, just lower the scanner's range from system-wide to a specific radius... which is kind of what I'm hoping will happen anyway.
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Re: Scanner 2.0

#132
Talvieno wrote:
Draglide12 wrote:If they want to know where I am they should have to scan for me. The ID should serve to make me easier to scan, it shouldn't be an absolute nix on anonymity.
Easily fixed, just lower the scanner's range from system-wide to a specific radius... which is kind of what I'm hoping will happen anyway.
Then curiously speaking, have either of you played Freelancer, Wing Commander, Freespace, or any of the plethora of other games that this draws inspiration from?

There is radar range, and anything within that range is insta-ID'd. Usually, radar range is not much more than what could visibly be seen anyways.

Scanners are usually for beyond that.

I think the misconception is that your radar range will be infinite--that's not the case. Radar is everything within a certain amount of range. Scanners are for long-distance trying to figure out whether it's worth your time in a certain direction.

I'm also assuming that there will be AWACs ships (ships whose sole purpose is to act as long-range radar/reconnaisance) that would probably detect you at a further range than the standard fighter to help alleviate that.

Stealth would kick in to try to 'beat the radar', so-to-speak.
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Re: Scanner 2.0

#133
I've played freelancer, but as it stands now, if you've noticed in the LT monthly videos, anything within the system is insta-identified and shows up as a marker on your HUD.
(I did assume that there would eventually be a limit to how far you could detect something, but at the moment, Josh's scanner/radar runs 24/7.

I've been using scanner and radar interchangeably, though, which I know I shouldn't be doing.
Last edited by Talvieno on Wed Apr 30, 2014 3:05 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Scanner 2.0

#134
Talvieno wrote:I've played freelancer, but as it stands now, if you've noticed in the LT monthly videos, anything within the system is insta-identified and shows up as a marker on your HUD.
I think that's because there isn't a dedicated radar yet. Josh is taking the entire system nodal display and just using that. At the same time, he is also in as 'debug' mode in which case everything is already seen.

I'd have to believe that this issue will be addressed once he's comfortable enough with the macro scale of things. But yeah, if this is what lead you to be concerned, you have every right to be.
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