The Docking Process

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Re: The Docking Process

Postby ThymineC » Tue Jan 21, 2014 7:54 pm

Grumblesaur wrote:
ThymineC wrote:More Coming Soon.™


I can see it now, "Thoughts on Station Growth", by ThymineC » Wed Jan 22, 2014 4:42 am.

You're thinking wayyy too small. :)

But it'll take time to put everything together. Still got more research to do.
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Re: The Docking Process

Postby JoshParnell » Tue Jan 21, 2014 10:22 pm

ThymineC wrote:
Grumblesaur wrote:
ThymineC wrote:More Coming Soon.™


I can see it now, "Thoughts on Station Growth", by ThymineC » Wed Jan 22, 2014 4:42 am.

You're thinking wayyy too small. :)

But it'll take time to put everything together. Still got more research to do.


Obligatory cute station meme:

Image

Also: yes, stations can expand. More on that from me soon as well :D
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Re: The Docking Process

Postby CutterJohn » Wed Jan 22, 2014 12:14 am

JoshParnell wrote:Also: yes, stations can expand. More on that from me soon as well :D


Chief worry here: Is the AI an autopilot or an autopillock? Especially for larger ships.

Watching a large ship try to make its way around to the other side of a station was really painful, and it just got worse the large the station was.

If the AI isn't going to have issues flying over there, all is good, but otherwise I would be quite cautious about how the stations are laid out and how big they can be.
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Re: The Docking Process

Postby JoshParnell » Wed Jan 22, 2014 12:22 am

CutterJohn wrote:
JoshParnell wrote:Also: yes, stations can expand. More on that from me soon as well :D


Chief worry here: Is the AI an autopilot or an autopillock? Especially for larger ships.

Watching a large ship try to make its way around to the other side of a station was really painful, and it just got worse the large the station was.

If the AI isn't going to have issues flying over there, all is good, but otherwise I would be quite cautious about how the stations are laid out and how big they can be.


Maybe I'm naive but I'm not terribly concerned about maneuvering for docking :) I mean, it was implemented in LTP - we had a few issues but it was hammered out just fine. True, the stations weren't much more than big asteroids which made it easy...but the stations aren't going to get too topologically complex in LT.

The above "happy station," for example, would be very easy for an AI to dock at. LT stations won't be getting as large / complex as those in X:R, for example.

BTW, were you referring to a specific game?
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Re: The Docking Process

Postby CutterJohn » Wed Jan 22, 2014 1:50 am

Well, my go too reference for horrible AI pathfinding is X3:TC/AP, especially around the massive terran stations. The AI would just bump the hitbox, turn slightly, bump it again, turn slightly, bump it again.. It would take an AI at least 10x longer to get to the other side of a station than it took me to do the same, more if it were a TL or M1/2.

All I'm saying is if its a choice between a stupid AI fumbling its way around a station to the docking point, and magic 'close enough' docking like eve has, well, i'll take the eve stuff. :)
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Re: The Docking Process

Postby mcsven » Wed Jan 22, 2014 2:00 am

I would go for three things:

  1. All ships come with automatic docking-pilot computers (Freelancer style)
  2. Ships can be manually docked if the docking-pilot is destroyed/damaged in combat
  3. All stations/planets run salvage ops that take credit
I really really really don't want to complete some long trade run and then crash on docking at my destination... similarly, having got out the fight of my life with nothing but the shirt on my back, I would like to get onto the station/planet to rebuild.
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Re: The Docking Process

Postby Gazz » Wed Jan 22, 2014 2:31 am

CutterJohn wrote:Well, my go too reference for horrible AI pathfinding is X3:TC/AP, especially around the massive terran stations. The AI would just bump the hitbox, turn slightly, bump it again, turn slightly, bump it again.

Well, the only "pathfinding" that X3 ships do is to fly in a straight line.

If collision avoidance kicks in, they fly back to a point x meters on a direct line with them and the station.
I don't know if this target point is even offset towards a course "around" the obstacle.

With large objects as the terran stations, this can mean a flight of many minutes each time, just to get to there and back again.

X:R is supposed to have much more complex pathfinding but so far it's not too impressive. =)
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Re: The Docking Process

Postby Underdisc » Wed Jan 22, 2014 2:33 am

-Huge ships and docking.

This was a large concern of mine as well. I forget who mentioned this solution, but the idea of not being able to dock huge ships is great. If a ship is HUGE, then there is no doubt that it will have a docking bay of its own, simply due to its size. Because of the fact that the ship would probably have smaller ships assigned to it, the player could just use those smaller ships to transport goods to and from a station. You would be "attached" to the station without being physically attached to the station.
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Re: The Docking Process

Postby CutterJohn » Wed Jan 22, 2014 4:39 am

Underdisc wrote:-Huge ships and docking.

This was a large concern of mine as well. I forget who mentioned this solution, but the idea of not being able to dock huge ships is great. If a ship is HUGE, then there is no doubt that it will have a docking bay of its own, simply due to its size. Because of the fact that the ship would probably have smaller ships assigned to it, the player could just use those smaller ships to transport goods to and from a station. You would be "attached" to the station without being physically attached to the station.


This reminds me of Independence War 2. Cargo ships carried actual shipping containers on their exterior, and each shipping container had a small maneuvering package installed to scoot them around. It would be quite cool if, after a purchase of bulk goods, the station would just spit out a shipping container that went out and docked with your ship. Likewise selling, the container would just disengage from your ship and then you can scoot, its the stations responsibility now.

It also made piracy a ton of fun since the cargo ships just released the containers and took off.
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Re: The Docking Process

Postby Cornflakes_91 » Wed Jan 22, 2014 4:41 am

CutterJohn wrote:
Underdisc wrote:-Huge ships and docking.

This was a large concern of mine as well. I forget who mentioned this solution, but the idea of not being able to dock huge ships is great. If a ship is HUGE, then there is no doubt that it will have a docking bay of its own, simply due to its size. Because of the fact that the ship would probably have smaller ships assigned to it, the player could just use those smaller ships to transport goods to and from a station. You would be "attached" to the station without being physically attached to the station.


This reminds me of Independence War 2. Cargo ships carried actual shipping containers on their exterior, and each shipping container had a small maneuvering package installed to scoot them around. It would be quite cool if, after a purchase of bulk goods, the station would just spit out a shipping container that went out and docked with your ship. Likewise selling, the container would just disengage from your ship and then you can scoot, its the stations responsibility now.

It also made piracy a ton of fun since the cargo ships just released the containers and took off.


as josh said (looong ago) something about external cargo hardpoints are likely in, that could be a possibility
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Re: The Docking Process

Postby DWMagus » Thu Jan 23, 2014 11:28 am

Not sure if this piece was addressed as I read the backlog;

When it comes to 'parking spots', that having 19 spots and the 20th for the player only works for the player themself and not for a fleet. Unless there is room for the fleet traveling with the player (let's say 4 ships so we're not excessive), then you would still have to dock/undock 1 by 1 in order to get each ship taken care of.

What about large 'parking garages' stations in the more busy sectors? I do like the idea of limited room though, and more developed systems / stations would have plenty of room while those on the outskirts wouldn't.

It would also add an interesting mechanic to those AI who want to dock and just research all day. If there is a cost associated with doing that, then it might affect the economy in interesting ways.
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Re: The Docking Process

Postby Katorone » Thu Jan 23, 2014 1:19 pm

I'm personally not a big fan of letting the player have preferential treatment.
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Re: The Docking Process

Postby Cornflakes_91 » Sat Feb 07, 2015 6:34 pm

JoshParnell wrote:Obligatory cute station meme:

Image

Also: yes, stations can expand. More on that from me soon as well :D



that was a year ago, may i ask for information :mrgreen:
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Re: The Docking Process

Postby Victor Tombs » Sat Feb 07, 2015 6:52 pm

I would also be interested in information, Cornflakes. I'm hoping it's an improvement on what we experienced in the LTP. :mrgreen:

Edit: I'm talking docking more than the size of stations. :angel:
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Re: The Docking Process

Postby Cornflakes_91 » Fri Jul 01, 2016 9:35 am

Bump because another year of "soon" has passed :ghost:
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