we should maybe move the discussion to this thread
this idea about wormholes with one mobile end was already mentioned there
Post
Sun Apr 20, 2014 2:21 pm
#62
Re: Interplanetary Highways, Trade Lanes, Acceleration Gates
Thanks, I'll read through it
I did think we had gone a bit off topic!
I did think we had gone a bit off topic!
Post
Sun Dec 14, 2014 12:45 pm
#63
Re: Interplanetary Highways, Trade Lanes, Acceleration Gates
I was kind of sad when I saw the trade lanes in the latest update. It worked OK in FL but with an universe this big I think it could be done different to make traveling more interesting and give the player more choices to make. Also TBH I don't like the idea of gates, orbs or other kind things along a route. It's space, not a road with lampposts every 10 meters.
My suggestion has no scientific background and is the result of brainstorming gameplay ideas after watching the latest dev update. I may talk about asteroids a lot but it could be any kind of landmark.
Trade lanes have one entrance/exit on both ends but no intermediate objects. You can still leave the lane any time you want but can't simply jump back in since you lack the acceleration gate (or w/e). You can however catch the 'wake' of a ship passing by if it is your size or bigger (can't hook to a small figher if you are in a freighter). Using this method asteroid belts along lanes are accessible with the risk of being stuck until some other ship comes along you can hook on to. In less populated systems its obviously more risky but the rewards may be worth it (less populated = potentially less exploited) Alternatively you can always take the long route but may step on somebodies lawn.
Pirates may use equipment to disrupt a part of a lane temporarily and pull several ships out. A juicy convoy may be split up making for easy money or in addition to a single freighter a more combat capable ship gets pulled out as well making an attack more difficult.
Planets are usually a good place to start/end a lane since they offer plenty opportunities for sci-fi explanations (lagrange point anyone?) and may have something interesting around like a station. Since planets move (should this be a feature, I definitely hope so) the lane's end points move with them, deforming it in an arc around the parent body and changing its length. It makes the environment more dynamic and introduces more choices to make (e.g. jump now or wait until the lane is shorter giving pirates less chance to intercept?). Landmarks may temporarily be more or less accessible which can be exploited with the right technology like a mobile and/or deploy able jump platform that allows entering a lane at any time.
Speaking of tech there would be a load of things to discover. Interdiction modules for pirates, stabilizers for their victims, mobile jump platforms ... you name it.
If you think about it you may find some flaws but it's not flashed out but an attempt to give traveling more depth, making it somewhat stylish (aka no static lamp posts) and get away from how it was in FL (lane disruption was unavoidable, annoying and didn't give any reward).
My suggestion has no scientific background and is the result of brainstorming gameplay ideas after watching the latest dev update. I may talk about asteroids a lot but it could be any kind of landmark.
Trade lanes have one entrance/exit on both ends but no intermediate objects. You can still leave the lane any time you want but can't simply jump back in since you lack the acceleration gate (or w/e). You can however catch the 'wake' of a ship passing by if it is your size or bigger (can't hook to a small figher if you are in a freighter). Using this method asteroid belts along lanes are accessible with the risk of being stuck until some other ship comes along you can hook on to. In less populated systems its obviously more risky but the rewards may be worth it (less populated = potentially less exploited) Alternatively you can always take the long route but may step on somebodies lawn.
Pirates may use equipment to disrupt a part of a lane temporarily and pull several ships out. A juicy convoy may be split up making for easy money or in addition to a single freighter a more combat capable ship gets pulled out as well making an attack more difficult.
Planets are usually a good place to start/end a lane since they offer plenty opportunities for sci-fi explanations (lagrange point anyone?) and may have something interesting around like a station. Since planets move (should this be a feature, I definitely hope so) the lane's end points move with them, deforming it in an arc around the parent body and changing its length. It makes the environment more dynamic and introduces more choices to make (e.g. jump now or wait until the lane is shorter giving pirates less chance to intercept?). Landmarks may temporarily be more or less accessible which can be exploited with the right technology like a mobile and/or deploy able jump platform that allows entering a lane at any time.
Speaking of tech there would be a load of things to discover. Interdiction modules for pirates, stabilizers for their victims, mobile jump platforms ... you name it.
If you think about it you may find some flaws but it's not flashed out but an attempt to give traveling more depth, making it somewhat stylish (aka no static lamp posts) and get away from how it was in FL (lane disruption was unavoidable, annoying and didn't give any reward).
Post
Sun Dec 14, 2014 12:58 pm
#64
Re: Interplanetary Highways, Trade Lanes, Acceleration Gates
first of: welcome
second: planets dont move. period.
the engine doesnt support it because it wasnt necessary in development.
third: if its just an acceleration gate, how can you exploit its effect when another ship comes by?
how do you even see the lane to select and use it from the middle?
fourth: how does this remove lane disruption?
you explicitly include the same mechanic.
its as unavoidable as in FL.
even moreso as you removed any object that could defend itself from/report intruders.
effectively increasing the possibilities of interdiction.
while at the same time removing everything that could be used tactically to escape in such a situation and replacing it with pure luck
(does another ship come by or not?)
also: how should getting attacked give an reward in any way?
the whole point of combat is to harm the other, not to reward him anyhow.
"its annoying and doesnt give you anything" could be said about pirates in general when you are a trader.
second: planets dont move. period.
the engine doesnt support it because it wasnt necessary in development.
third: if its just an acceleration gate, how can you exploit its effect when another ship comes by?
how do you even see the lane to select and use it from the middle?
fourth: how does this remove lane disruption?
you explicitly include the same mechanic.
its as unavoidable as in FL.
even moreso as you removed any object that could defend itself from/report intruders.
effectively increasing the possibilities of interdiction.
while at the same time removing everything that could be used tactically to escape in such a situation and replacing it with pure luck
(does another ship come by or not?)
also: how should getting attacked give an reward in any way?
the whole point of combat is to harm the other, not to reward him anyhow.
"its annoying and doesnt give you anything" could be said about pirates in general when you are a trader.
Post
Mon Dec 15, 2014 1:13 am
#65
This is apparently a design requirement based on how the 2003 game Freelancer worked. Planets and asteroid fields don't move so that there can be fast travel lanes connecting them.
That said, it may be possible for a very hard-working developer to mod Limit Theory after it's released to remove the warp lanes and allow planets to orbit and rotate. I suggested some ideas for that in the Planetary Rings thread.
Re: Interplanetary Highways, Trade Lanes, Acceleration Gates
As Cornflakes said, large natural bodies in stellar systems will not move.Fudabidu wrote:Planets are usually a good place to start/end a lane since they offer plenty opportunities for sci-fi explanations (lagrange point anyone?) and may have something interesting around like a station. Since planets move (should this be a feature, I definitely hope so) the lane's end points move with them, deforming it in an arc around the parent body and changing its length. It makes the environment more dynamic and introduces more choices to make (e.g. jump now or wait until the lane is shorter giving pirates less chance to intercept?). Landmarks may temporarily be more or less accessible which can be exploited with the right technology like a mobile and/or deploy able jump platform that allows entering a lane at any time.
This is apparently a design requirement based on how the 2003 game Freelancer worked. Planets and asteroid fields don't move so that there can be fast travel lanes connecting them.
That said, it may be possible for a very hard-working developer to mod Limit Theory after it's released to remove the warp lanes and allow planets to orbit and rotate. I suggested some ideas for that in the Planetary Rings thread.
Post
Mon Dec 15, 2014 1:27 am
#66
Re: Interplanetary Highways, Trade Lanes, Acceleration Gates
I'm going to wipe that from my memory, Flat.Flatfingers wrote:That said, it may be possible for a very hard-working developer to mod Limit Theory after it's released to remove the warp lanes and allow planets to orbit and rotate.
Post
Mon Dec 15, 2014 1:35 am
#67
Re: Interplanetary Highways, Trade Lanes, Acceleration Gates
Your objection has been registered and is respected.Victor Tombs wrote:I'm going to wipe that from my memory, Flat.Flatfingers wrote:That said, it may be possible for a very hard-working developer to mod Limit Theory after it's released to remove the warp lanes and allow planets to orbit and rotate.
Post
Mon Dec 15, 2014 11:25 am
#68
Early Spring - 1055: Well, I made it to Boatmurdered, and my initial impressions can be set forth in three words: What. The. F*ck.
Re: Interplanetary Highways, Trade Lanes, Acceleration Gates
So here's where I start kicking myself for even thinking about this...
One of the biggest gripes I ever had about celestial bodies moving is that there is no easy way to tell how they moved and that they would look like a random scattering of planets whenever they do move.
First, let me defend my point regarding the random smattering of planets. The only way we know our planets are in a circular orbit is because we can watch them move, project their trajectory and see how it changes over time. This is stuff that we won't see in-game. If the planets are moving fast enough to be able to see their trajectory, they'll be moving too fast to be useful and will just cause general havoc. Unless of course there is a dotted line already built into the game that shows the player the trajectory of the planet; come up with some mumbo-jumbo that your ship's computer is digitally displaying it so you don't get lost and know how the planets move.
But then this led me onto my next though;
Why not be able to make warp rails along those circular paths? It made me realize that when Josh was cruising around a planet with the circular rails. Only in this case, it would be a circular one paralleling a planet's path. There would be straight-shot rails between the different 'rings' (that move with the planet as well) of rails to be able to get from one planet's orbit to another. This would allow planets to orbit without breaking the trade lane mechanic from Freelancer.
The biggest downside I can see though is travel time. Going from one end of the system to the other would no longer be an easy straight shot (as sometimes--albeit rarely--a planet could cross the path [unless you build the warp rail above the orbital plane] and disrupt the path) to the other end. Of course, if speeds on the warp rails are increased, that may not be a problem.
Gah, I can't believe I'm actually considering reversing my position on this.
One of the biggest gripes I ever had about celestial bodies moving is that there is no easy way to tell how they moved and that they would look like a random scattering of planets whenever they do move.
First, let me defend my point regarding the random smattering of planets. The only way we know our planets are in a circular orbit is because we can watch them move, project their trajectory and see how it changes over time. This is stuff that we won't see in-game. If the planets are moving fast enough to be able to see their trajectory, they'll be moving too fast to be useful and will just cause general havoc. Unless of course there is a dotted line already built into the game that shows the player the trajectory of the planet; come up with some mumbo-jumbo that your ship's computer is digitally displaying it so you don't get lost and know how the planets move.
But then this led me onto my next though;
Why not be able to make warp rails along those circular paths? It made me realize that when Josh was cruising around a planet with the circular rails. Only in this case, it would be a circular one paralleling a planet's path. There would be straight-shot rails between the different 'rings' (that move with the planet as well) of rails to be able to get from one planet's orbit to another. This would allow planets to orbit without breaking the trade lane mechanic from Freelancer.
The biggest downside I can see though is travel time. Going from one end of the system to the other would no longer be an easy straight shot (as sometimes--albeit rarely--a planet could cross the path [unless you build the warp rail above the orbital plane] and disrupt the path) to the other end. Of course, if speeds on the warp rails are increased, that may not be a problem.
Gah, I can't believe I'm actually considering reversing my position on this.
Early Spring - 1055: Well, I made it to Boatmurdered, and my initial impressions can be set forth in three words: What. The. F*ck.
Post
Mon Dec 15, 2014 11:29 am
#69
so you'd have to build the rings at distances to each other that they can establish a single rail segment between them and swap that beam around as they orbit.
Re: Interplanetary Highways, Trade Lanes, Acceleration Gates
you'd have to change/rebuild the connecting straight lines regularily, as the inner and outer rings orbit at different velocities.DWMagus wrote: Why not be able to make warp rails along those circular paths? It made me realize that when Josh was cruising around a planet with the circular rails. Only in this case, it would be a circular one paralleling a planet's path. There would be straight-shot rails between the different 'rings' (that move with the planet as well) of rails to be able to get from one planet's orbit to another. This would allow planets to orbit without breaking the trade lane mechanic from Freelancer.
so you'd have to build the rings at distances to each other that they can establish a single rail segment between them and swap that beam around as they orbit.
Post
Mon Dec 15, 2014 11:39 am
#70
Early Spring - 1055: Well, I made it to Boatmurdered, and my initial impressions can be set forth in three words: What. The. F*ck.
Re: Interplanetary Highways, Trade Lanes, Acceleration Gates
Not unless the paths that connect the different rings aren't actually attached to the rings themselves. Let them orbit at the same speed as the planet that would normally cross it's path. Since you can jump in and out of rail systems, when you see a planet coming up, you know automatically that there would be a connecting rail near by.Cornflakes_91 wrote:you'd have to change/rebuild the connecting straight lines regularily, as the inner and outer rings orbit at different velocities.DWMagus wrote: Why not be able to make warp rails along those circular paths? It made me realize that when Josh was cruising around a planet with the circular rails. Only in this case, it would be a circular one paralleling a planet's path. There would be straight-shot rails between the different 'rings' (that move with the planet as well) of rails to be able to get from one planet's orbit to another. This would allow planets to orbit without breaking the trade lane mechanic from Freelancer.
so you'd have to build the rings at distances to each other that they can establish a single rail segment between them and swap that beam around as they orbit.
Early Spring - 1055: Well, I made it to Boatmurdered, and my initial impressions can be set forth in three words: What. The. F*ck.
Post
Mon Dec 15, 2014 11:42 am
#71
you'd still have a problem when changing orbital height.
say a rail in low sun orbit connecting to a rail on a further out orbit parallel to a planets orbit for example.
the rail segments on progressively higher orbital heights would not stay connected very long.
Re: Interplanetary Highways, Trade Lanes, Acceleration Gates
DWMagus wrote:
Not unless the paths that connect the different rings aren't actually attached to the rings themselves. Let them orbit at the same speed as the planet that would normally cross it's path. Since you can jump in and out of rail systems, when you see a planet coming up, you know automatically that there would be a connecting rail near by.
you'd still have a problem when changing orbital height.
say a rail in low sun orbit connecting to a rail on a further out orbit parallel to a planets orbit for example.
the rail segments on progressively higher orbital heights would not stay connected very long.
Post
Mon Dec 15, 2014 11:45 am
#72
Re: Interplanetary Highways, Trade Lanes, Acceleration Gates
So, how would this not work?
You don't need to move anything... there would just be a few "highways" inwards across the system.
You don't need to move anything... there would just be a few "highways" inwards across the system.
Have a question? Send me a PM! || I have a Patreon page up for REKT now! || People talking in IRC over the past two hours:
Post
Mon Dec 15, 2014 11:49 am
#73
Add on to it, let the connecting rails 'jump over' the rings, there fore not needing to be moved and planets would pass 'under' them.
Eccentric orbits would be another thing.
Early Spring - 1055: Well, I made it to Boatmurdered, and my initial impressions can be set forth in three words: What. The. F*ck.
Re: Interplanetary Highways, Trade Lanes, Acceleration Gates
Actually, this demonstrates my point perfectly.Talvieno wrote:So, how would this not work?
You don't need to move anything... there would just be a few "highways" inwards across the system.
Add on to it, let the connecting rails 'jump over' the rings, there fore not needing to be moved and planets would pass 'under' them.
Eccentric orbits would be another thing.
Early Spring - 1055: Well, I made it to Boatmurdered, and my initial impressions can be set forth in three words: What. The. F*ck.
Post
Mon Dec 15, 2014 11:54 am
#74
Re: Interplanetary Highways, Trade Lanes, Acceleration Gates
different orbital velocities are the problem.
lower orbits have a higher one, so they need less time for the 360° of a full orbit
the connecting lines would drift apart and disconnect if they orbit
(the outermost segment orbits too, i just set it to be the "reference orbit" piece)
lower orbits have a higher one, so they need less time for the 360° of a full orbit
the connecting lines would drift apart and disconnect if they orbit
(the outermost segment orbits too, i just set it to be the "reference orbit" piece)
Post
Mon Dec 15, 2014 11:57 am
#75
Re: Interplanetary Highways, Trade Lanes, Acceleration Gates
Nope. I'm saying the rails never move. Only planets with ellipsoidal orbits would be a problem, and even then, it's easy. You simply "tether" the planet to an "average" circular rail with another rail... but at that point, you do need moving rails for the tether, but at least you don't have to worry about the distance between planets growing too great.
That said... I probably wouldn't use the mod myself. probably. I just like finding solutions to problems like this.
That said... I probably wouldn't use the mod myself. probably. I just like finding solutions to problems like this.
Have a question? Send me a PM! || I have a Patreon page up for REKT now! || People talking in IRC over the past two hours: