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Re: Interplanetary Highways

#31
Gazz wrote:
corya14 wrote:I can't remember what show or space game this is from, but the basic movement propulsion was provided by 'sublight' engines. Faster travel was available through some sort of hyperdrive (I think it was called the FTL drive)..
ELITE 1. =)
I thought the were called 'Jump' drives?
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concerning tradelanes

#33
i dont know what they wil be called in LT but in a few pictures i have seen structures looking suspiciusly like tradelanes out of Freelancer. there has also been discussions about the use of cruise engines as a way to travel long distances, why not merge these two by making cruise engines extreamly fast but makes you a sitting duck as you are powering up. tis way you can remove these giant structures that in the end seem to inhibit the free travel of the system and in the end the universe, why not just make the player point somewere and start whizzing that direction when that essencially is what tradelanes do, just more akwardly with the need of a map. you can of course make an autopilot function that wil take you to the most important places but you should probbably be able to fly as you like too. i don know how to preserve the feeling of size however but that could be fixed bt having cruise be a little slow combared to the WHOOOOM and you're there way of travel like starwars or eve or many other games.

i am not trying to influence the choice between cruise engines and time acceleration, just that cruise engines is prefferable to tradelanes.

if it turns out there isnt going to be tradelanes you must excuse me, this is just one of those things that i really burn for (free, un fettered travel).
also my english is kinda sketchy here and there so you will have to excuse me.
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Re: concerning tradelanes

#34
There will be tradelanes, but I believe they'll have a different name. Also, I think that Josh is leaning towards time acceleration rather than cruise, at the moment. But I may be corrected on that.

Besides keeping the space clear, what are the benefits of not having tradelanes?




Edit: More to the point, Hedge...Ravener, you created another thread named Systems where this has already been addressed. Though perhaps you're after an answer from Josh??
“The impact of space activities is nothing less than the galvanizing of hope and imagination for human life continuum into a future of infinite possibility.”
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Re: Interplanetary Highways

#35
TanC wrote:Hmm...destroying gates. Like the earlier poster, I hope civilized systems will rebuild the acceleration gates. Then we can start a little supply economy to supply them the materials needed to build that new gate.
i think they will hate you by then if i understand your plan correctly. :D :x MURDER!
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Re: Interplanetary Highways

#36
JoshParnell wrote: As for intra-system jumping, sure, I don't see why not. If you can use your jump drive to jump into other systems, I certainly don't see why you couldn't use it to jump between planets! :)
There may be circumstances where you don't want it to happen e.g. it would be too easy for a bunch of warships to just 'appear' beside a space station, blast it to pieces and disappear again. The whole universe would be at the mercy of the ruthless to the extent that it unbalances the game.

A good excuse to avoid this is that FTL jumps require 'flattish' space i.e. a good distance up the gravity well. In other words, far enough out from planets and other massive bodies where space-time is less curved. That would mean that jumps would only happen some way from where most stations and population centres are, and sub-light-speed travel (still fast though) would be the norm around planets.
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Re: Interplanetary Highways

#37
JoshParnell wrote:Yes, they're "trade lanes," although I will stick to calling them acceleration gates from now on to avoid being too much like Freelancer! They are for fast intra-system travel between points of interest in systems. No, they won't be in every system.
...
I know some people might not like this model of transportation...and for that I apologize, but this is my absolute favorite! I love the way that it makes space feel huge (because it takes a good while to get between points manually), yet tractable (because you can use acceleration lanes), yet still vast all at the same time. IMO, it achieves a very cool balance that offers a lot of options.
I don't have a problem speeding up intra-system travel but it should literally be acceleration - not an instant jump.

You may only be able to enter such an acceleration gate at well... an acceleration gate... but while you are super-boosting to the destination gate, you should be allowed to drop out anytime.
That allows you to explore a lot more space around such highways. If you teleport the ship to the destination gate, the intermittent space simply doesn't exist.

Space only feels big if you experience any travel time at all. If you show the player that this space is there and that he can go there and do things.


This also has tactical implications. Since other ships are not teleporting to the destination gate instantly, you can prepare a defense. You may not have a lot of time but more than zero. This is a a lot more playable than having ships "drop" on you, seemingly out of nowhere.
There is no "I" in Tea. That would be gross.
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Re: Interplanetary Highways

#38
JabbleWok wrote:
JoshParnell wrote: As for intra-system jumping, sure, I don't see why not. If you can use your jump drive to jump into other systems, I certainly don't see why you couldn't use it to jump between planets! :)
There may be circumstances where you don't want it to happen e.g. it would be too easy for a bunch of warships to just 'appear' beside a space station, blast it to pieces and disappear again. The whole universe would be at the mercy of the ruthless to the extent that it unbalances the game.

A good excuse to avoid this is that FTL jumps require 'flattish' space i.e. a good distance up the gravity well. In other words, far enough out from planets and other massive bodies where space-time is less curved. That would mean that jumps would only happen some way from where most stations and population centres are, and sub-light-speed travel (still fast though) would be the norm around planets.
I see what you mean - if ships could freely jump wherever they wanted in-system, it could really increase the damage caused by large attacks, as of one faction against another. As you said, a fleet could just jump in on top of their target, making things like defense platforms, patrols, and blockades largely useless.

I think I like your suggestion that there be a limit to how close to large bodies like planets one could jump, due to the curvature of space. This would give a station or planet time to rally its NPCs and defenses to prepare for the incoming forces. This compromise would still allow intra-system jumping, but would limit the game-breaking danger of attack forces jumping on top of their enemies with no warning.
Gazz wrote:Space only feels big if you experience any travel time at all. If you show the player that this space is there and that he can go there and do things.
I agree. Freelancer, while awesome, really lacked a sense of scale. It made it too easy to traverse interstellar and interplanetary space in a heartbeat with jump gates and trade lanes. Since we won't be modelling interstellar space, jump gates and drives are fine - but I reassert my suggestion that trade lanes should NOT be available everywhere, and that they only be used in civilized systems where their cost can be justified.

Trade lanes made a lot of sense in Freelancer because you couldn't upgrade your engines. All ships had the same top speed. As far as I know, you'll be able to upgrade your engines in LT, and practically no two ships will have exactly the same top speed or acceleration.

In light of LT's emphasis on unique ship design and upgrades, ships should be required to fly between planets under their own motive power, at least in In less civilized or poorer systems. This would place more emphasis on players' ships, as upgrading your ship's engines will let you go between planets more quickly where there are no trade lanes, and maybe reaching the point where your ship is almost as fast without a trade lane as within. This would provide gameplay that's much more rewarding and deep than hopping into a trade lane and letting it do all the work.

It will also give players a better sense of how big space is, and help them appreciate the upgrades they make to their engines, as they can now make a trade run in, say, 10 minutes that took them, say, 20 minutes before they improved their engines/got a faster ship.

Allowing trade-lane-less flight to be a practical way to travel will also enhance the player's sense of freedom, as trade lanes won't be the only practical way to get between two planets (as they are in Freelancer). It will make space seem the trackless and free frontier that it is, rather than the channelized series of roads and routines that is our actual existence on Earth.
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Re: Interplanetary Highways, Trade Lanes, Acceleration Gates

#39
From the look of the gates/lanes in the videos/screenshots, they should be relatively easy to drop in and out of. It looks rather like a pneumatic tube system, where a force would be pushing you along within the lane, so if you drop out of the lane you will slow down; if you pop back in, you will speed up. So you flow along the path of the gate/lane/whatever and would thus experience travelling through the intervening space.
I am 42.
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Re: Interplanetary Highways, Trade Lanes, Acceleration Gates

#40
Kayse wrote:From the look of the gates/lanes in the videos/screenshots, they should be relatively easy to drop in and out of. It looks rather like a pneumatic tube system, where a force would be pushing you along within the lane, so if you drop out of the lane you will slow down; if you pop back in, you will speed up. So you flow along the path of the gate/lane/whatever and would thus experience travelling through the intervening space.
Oh, I know you'll actually be travelling along the intervening space in the trade lane - you did that in Freelancer too, and you could drop out of them there too. The problem is that there was almost never a point to dropping out of them, because they were the only way you could travel around in a system without taking an hour to get from planet to planet. It turned space into a two-dimensional series of roads (a series of tubes?) rather than the vast free, 3D space it should be.

I'd really like to see trade lanes be only one option to get around. Yes, a fast option, but not the only way to cruise between planets quickly. I want to be able to upgrade my engines and radiation shielding and take a shortcut across the solar system from a planet on one side of the sun to the other, passing dangerously close to the star. In sum, I want to go offroading in space, and have it be practical rather than time-consuming and made pointless by trade lanes.
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Re: Interplanetary Highways, Trade Lanes, Acceleration Gates

#41
Absolutely.
The great danger of such a trade-lane system is that sectors tend to consist of "bubbles of interest" with nothing interesting whatsoever between them.

When it takes an hour to go to and from a point in deep space, there has to be a super strong motivation for going there.
This actually ties into another topic: Making exploring and exploiting interesting and rewarding.

Procedural generation can help with that, though, because sectors are not hand-crafted and therefore not limited in the absolute amount of stuff that a human had to place there.
There is no "I" in Tea. That would be gross.
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Re: Interplanetary Highways, Trade Lanes, Acceleration Gates

#42
insolent wrote:
Kayse wrote:From the look of the gates/lanes in the videos/screenshots, they should be relatively easy to drop in and out of. It looks rather like a pneumatic tube system, where a force would be pushing you along within the lane, so if you drop out of the lane you will slow down; if you pop back in, you will speed up. So you flow along the path of the gate/lane/whatever and would thus experience travelling through the intervening space.
Oh, I know you'll actually be travelling along the intervening space in the trade lane - you did that in Freelancer too, and you could drop out of them there too.
Yeah, sorry, that was really more directed at Gazz, I just hadn't quoted the text when I was posting as, at the time I started writing, there weren't other posts after his yet. XD
I don't have a problem speeding up intra-system travel but it should literally be acceleration - not an instant jump.

You may only be able to enter such an acceleration gate at well... an acceleration gate... but while you are super-boosting to the destination gate, you should be allowed to drop out anytime.
That allows you to explore a lot more space around such highways. If you teleport the ship to the destination gate, the intermittent space simply doesn't exist.
I am 42.
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Re: Interplanetary Highways, Trade Lanes, Acceleration Gates

#43
Hello! (New to the forum)
Things seem to be set with the acceleration 'highways' in the game, which I think is a very nice dynamic, esp. for trade/piracy. Jump drive type tech is common and slightly less exciting in my opinion.
If the acceleration gates are destructible, the opportunity for piracy and other types of surprise attack situations is very exciting. This also forces trade corps and other organizations in game to hire to check and maintain the accel/wormhole gates. The automatic infrastructure activity created here is much more dynamic than players buying jump drives and jumping these distances. (so for RP sake, let's say that the tech for jumping ships can't operate if it's jumping itself, or is simply too large to sensibly put on a ship).

cheers!
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Re: Interplanetary Highways, Trade Lanes, Acceleration Gates

#45
Ecks wrote:Hello! (New to the forum)
[...]
acceleration 'highways' [...] a very nice dynamic, esp. for trade/piracy. Jump drive type tech is common and slightly less exciting in my opinion.
[...]
If the acceleration gates are destructible, the opportunity for piracy and other types of surprise attack situations is very exciting.
[...]
Great post, Ecks. Which leads me to realize that I'm quite fuzzy on what the official word is on trade lanes, beyond that they're actually built by actual NPCs.. and that's about it. :oops:

here we go:
JoshParnell wrote:
TMRNetShark wrote:
JoshParnell wrote:Excellent! Glad you're pleased. LT is about the freedom to play how you like!! :D
Acceleration gate disruption? (For pirates or people who like to troll NPCs?)
Yes, I think so. But it will be harder than Freelancer...since the gates actually provide real force/acceleration, I think you will need to take out multiple gates to cause the NPCs to slow down enough to not make the next ring. This is a good opportunity to use that tactical interface I demoed to tell your other ships which rings to go take out! ;)
Seems that gate structure destruction is 'in'. :thumbup:
..and seems to me that battle-ready lane repair-man for hire will be quite an exciting profession (depending on the local pirate population).
"omg such tech many efficiency WOW" ~ Josh Parnell

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