I have to admit that the screenshots don't really give me a sense of intuitivity [sic], but it'll probably be really simple once I can actually fiddle around in it for a bit. Still, it seems to look easy for most and that's cool. Most of my problem I think is that my experience in coding is so limited that I don't really have a sense of how things connect between the different sections in those screenies.
Still, good progress is good progress
Post
Sun Mar 11, 2018 3:33 am
#32
Re: [Josh] Friday, March 9, 2018
Looks pretty intuitive to me. That being said I've put up with some pretty unintuitive things so my standards may just be extremely low.Lavaflow wrote: ↑Sat Mar 10, 2018 10:28 pmI have to admit that the screenshots don't really give me a sense of intuitivity [sic], but it'll probably be really simple once I can actually fiddle around in it for a bit. Still, it seems to look easy for most and that's cool. Most of my problem I think is that my experience in coding is so limited that I don't really have a sense of how things connect between the different sections in those screenies.
Still, good progress is good progress
<Detritus> I went up to my mom and said "hey... do you feel like giving five dollars to black lives matter?" and she laughed and said no :v <Black--Snow> my life does matter though ~~ added by Hema on Jun 11 2020 (2770)
Post
Sun Mar 11, 2018 4:18 am
#33
Re: [Josh] Friday, March 9, 2018
Looks like the hype train derailed on this update!
Its good to see that work is ongoing even if the update was more sideways than forward progress. How much more technical progress is needed before gameplay development can continue?
Its good to see that work is ongoing even if the update was more sideways than forward progress. How much more technical progress is needed before gameplay development can continue?
Post
Sun Mar 11, 2018 4:22 am
#34
Re: [Josh] Friday, March 9, 2018
Yeah I was wondering the same thing.Ashenraynor wrote: ↑Sun Mar 11, 2018 4:18 amIts good to see that work is ongoing even if the update was more sideways than forward progress. How much more technical progress is needed before gameplay development can continue?
Post
Sun Mar 11, 2018 6:46 am
#35
Re: [Josh] Friday, March 9, 2018
1st post and first time here and although new to this forum, I is OLD for a gamer, which also means in my humble opinion, I think what is being attempted here is amazing. I played elite (yes the original) back in the day, I played Freelancer to death and lots of Freelancer mods (I still do). So for what it's worth in my opinion... getting the back end right, right from the start IS KEY to this project's future. Freelancer had so much more potential in it, but it was hurried which also meant the back end was not really done right. it has been modded but not easily and it took a lot of effort by a lot of people and a relatively long time for that to happen. if this project can get to release and modding does start to happen relatively quickly and easily, then this could be massive, for both the developers or is that developer!
My point being, is that having coded and knowing just what a monumental task something like this can become, then having a tool suite, that is as good as this LOOKS like it is shaping up to be, then going forward, the space gaming world will have a tool set, that will really bring masses of modder's and fans alike, I see bees, flies and honeypots galore. I hope I'm not dead before this all becomes a reality for Josh. As for the game, well from Freelancer to Crossfire 2 to discovery etc, you get the point, perfection is not needed, but having something that ten's of thousands of people or more. can tinker and play with for the next 10 years or more, well that's something that has to be gotten relatively right from start, otherwise nobody will bother or care, I get it Josh, games come and go, but some are built to last
4th March 2003 is when Freelancer was released - that game is over 15 years old and people still think of it as better than almost all space games that came before it and after and is still being actively modded and multiplayer servers are still active for some mods. This could very well become the next big space sim, that draws a lot of people back into the fold, always keep in mind, playability, enjoyability, ease of introduction, the thrill of the kill and that feeling that you can become the best of the best, is still what drives a lot of players.
If you get this right, then it will last, if you get this wrong, then see what can happen!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LymCezUg7HI
It's OK he's an old mate of mine, he doesn't care and he burned out badly, MANY TIMES, so get it right, don't let pressure get to you, use it to see more clearly into what is needed to be accomplished and what is just bogging you down in code that may never be of any real use to you or anyone else. Matt was a gaming developer god at one time and I used to watch him burn himself out, it's not worth it, but UNLIKE Matt's games, you don't need to sell millions of copies of this, you just need to develop and license the toolset, so as to launch a million space ships on their journeys
Best of luck
My point being, is that having coded and knowing just what a monumental task something like this can become, then having a tool suite, that is as good as this LOOKS like it is shaping up to be, then going forward, the space gaming world will have a tool set, that will really bring masses of modder's and fans alike, I see bees, flies and honeypots galore. I hope I'm not dead before this all becomes a reality for Josh. As for the game, well from Freelancer to Crossfire 2 to discovery etc, you get the point, perfection is not needed, but having something that ten's of thousands of people or more. can tinker and play with for the next 10 years or more, well that's something that has to be gotten relatively right from start, otherwise nobody will bother or care, I get it Josh, games come and go, but some are built to last
4th March 2003 is when Freelancer was released - that game is over 15 years old and people still think of it as better than almost all space games that came before it and after and is still being actively modded and multiplayer servers are still active for some mods. This could very well become the next big space sim, that draws a lot of people back into the fold, always keep in mind, playability, enjoyability, ease of introduction, the thrill of the kill and that feeling that you can become the best of the best, is still what drives a lot of players.
If you get this right, then it will last, if you get this wrong, then see what can happen!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LymCezUg7HI
It's OK he's an old mate of mine, he doesn't care and he burned out badly, MANY TIMES, so get it right, don't let pressure get to you, use it to see more clearly into what is needed to be accomplished and what is just bogging you down in code that may never be of any real use to you or anyone else. Matt was a gaming developer god at one time and I used to watch him burn himself out, it's not worth it, but UNLIKE Matt's games, you don't need to sell millions of copies of this, you just need to develop and license the toolset, so as to launch a million space ships on their journeys
Best of luck
Post
Sun Mar 11, 2018 9:41 am
#36
Re: [Josh] Friday, March 9, 2018
I have to say, I definitely count myself among the ones wary of this update's implications, already echoed by a few in this thread. I do think the presence of Adam and Lindsey will help prevent history from repeating, but I'd be remiss not to voice my sentiment.
Post
Sun Mar 11, 2018 11:07 am
#37
Re: [Josh] Friday, March 9, 2018
Welcome to the forums, Hal! Very glad to have you here!
Personally, I'm not really worried about development going forward. I completely understand that people are concerned Josh is going down another rabbit hole, but I'm going to do my best to make sure he stays on track. I think it'll be fine.
Personally, I'm not really worried about development going forward. I completely understand that people are concerned Josh is going down another rabbit hole, but I'm going to do my best to make sure he stays on track. I think it'll be fine.
Have a question? Send me a PM! || I have a Patreon page up for REKT now! || People talking in IRC over the past two hours:
Post
Sun Mar 11, 2018 12:19 pm
#38
Re: [Josh] Friday, March 9, 2018
IT'S HAPPENING!! PROGRAMMING LANGUAGE BATTLES! LTFC CANCELLED! MOSTLY NEGATIVE NEGATIVE FEEDBACK FOR JOSH UPDATE! THIS IS NOT A DRILL! I REPEAT. THIS IS NOT A DRILL. COVER YOUR HYPE TRAINS AND BRING YOUR SQUIRRELS TO A SAFE PLACE!
Okay, but seriously. Though I am weary of the previous workflow optimization tools and the effects they had, there are actually two things josh has going for him now. On the one hand a fast and stable base thanks to Adams work, on the other hand a team that is able to intervene should Josh drift too far off the deep end. So really hope your new tool delivers. I really hope for it being referenced in the next log of either of your colleagues just to see wether or not that time was wasted.
Okay, but seriously. Though I am weary of the previous workflow optimization tools and the effects they had, there are actually two things josh has going for him now. On the one hand a fast and stable base thanks to Adams work, on the other hand a team that is able to intervene should Josh drift too far off the deep end. So really hope your new tool delivers. I really hope for it being referenced in the next log of either of your colleagues just to see wether or not that time was wasted.
[hypes internälly]
Post
Sun Mar 11, 2018 2:53 pm
#39
Re: [Josh] Friday, March 9, 2018
Good work, Josh.
--but it's gonna take one of those juicy gameplay/simulation-related logs Flat was talking about to get me bouncing.
--but it's gonna take one of those juicy gameplay/simulation-related logs Flat was talking about to get me bouncing.
"omg such tech many efficiency WOW" ~ Josh Parnell
Post
Sun Mar 11, 2018 5:42 pm
#40
Does this mean that you can create a "mod" for ship creation, i.e. mod_fighter_ships.lua
.. and then create a new mod, that has a dependency on "mod_fighter_ships.lua", where you can create capital ships?
.. or, do you have a "mod_ships.lua", and create two new mods:
- "mod_fighters.lua" for the aforementioned (wonderful work) of the fighters, which has a dependency on "mod_ships.lua"?
- create a new mod called "mod_capitals.lua", which has a dependency on "mod_ships.lua", so as to re-use the ship creation tech, but expand it for capital ships?
of course, "mod_ships.lua" (which will be a part of core), possibly has a dependency for core?
Or, how does the workflow change for you now?
My previous "smiley" post, was because I had no access to a keyboard.. but I'm interested in hearing from both Adam and you on how this new tech will help you both on the next (and ongoing) stage(s) of LT.. content
As always, keep us posted on your experience of the new tech, as even the screenies from Josh's post, excites me (maybe it has to do with his colour scheme), but as I like to say, I'm a "twig in a forest, detail kinda guy"
Re: [Josh] Friday, March 9, 2018
So, Lindsey (you lucky duck)LindseyReid wrote: ↑Fri Mar 09, 2018 3:59 pmFIRST lol!!! THIS IS SO COOOOOOOOOL!!!! I'm so excited to use this!!!
teehee, I get to use it now :VJoshParnell wrote: ↑Fri Mar 09, 2018 3:55 pmAnd in case this wasn't implied, LT will ship with this editor for your use in modding.
edit: Josh didn't get the joke; it's funny because i m a d e v e l o p e r
Does this mean that you can create a "mod" for ship creation, i.e. mod_fighter_ships.lua
.. and then create a new mod, that has a dependency on "mod_fighter_ships.lua", where you can create capital ships?
.. or, do you have a "mod_ships.lua", and create two new mods:
- "mod_fighters.lua" for the aforementioned (wonderful work) of the fighters, which has a dependency on "mod_ships.lua"?
- create a new mod called "mod_capitals.lua", which has a dependency on "mod_ships.lua", so as to re-use the ship creation tech, but expand it for capital ships?
of course, "mod_ships.lua" (which will be a part of core), possibly has a dependency for core?
Or, how does the workflow change for you now?
My previous "smiley" post, was because I had no access to a keyboard.. but I'm interested in hearing from both Adam and you on how this new tech will help you both on the next (and ongoing) stage(s) of LT.. content
As always, keep us posted on your experience of the new tech, as even the screenies from Josh's post, excites me (maybe it has to do with his colour scheme), but as I like to say, I'm a "twig in a forest, detail kinda guy"
Post
Sun Mar 11, 2018 5:44 pm
#41
Re: [Josh] Friday, March 9, 2018
Talvieno wrote: ↑Sun Mar 11, 2018 11:07 amWelcome to the forums, Hal! Very glad to have you here!
Personally, I'm not really worried about development going forward. I completely understand that people are concerned Josh is going down another rabbit hole, but I'm going to do my best to make sure he stays on track. I think it'll be fine.
Post
Sun Mar 11, 2018 9:11 pm
#42
Re: [Josh] Friday, March 9, 2018
I concur, I think it would be very interesting to hear from Adam and Lindsey about how this new tool changes and presumably enhances their workflows as well. And might I suggest that Tal be given access to this editor to make a couple small mods, if he hasn't already, so that it's utility can really be tested.
Getting real feedback on this tool from non-josh's will thus quiet or justify concerns that this was a waste of time.
Getting real feedback on this tool from non-josh's will thus quiet or justify concerns that this was a waste of time.
Challenging your assumptions is good for your health, good for your business, and good for your future. Stay skeptical but never undervalue the importance of a new and unfamiliar perspective.
Imagination Fertilizer
Beauty may not save the world, but it's the only thing that can
Imagination Fertilizer
Beauty may not save the world, but it's the only thing that can
Post
Sun Mar 11, 2018 10:34 pm
#43
Re: [Josh] Friday, March 9, 2018
The tool looks nice, but gameplay would look MUCH nicer. I don't want to sound sour and maybe due to my lack of programming understanding I won't value this tool as much, but wouldn't this sort of thing be better implemented closer to release or even during the end of beta? In my mind the beta should be for the core game, not for the mod efficiency. I feel like having mods in a beta just causes problems; people may not report bugs because they think their mod is causing it, and the game gets shipped with a couple missed things. Definitely have the capabilities there, I'm not saying to ignore them, but test the vanilla first. A bug-free foundation of the vanilla game should have highest priority in my opinion.
(Note: I still like mods and will use definitely be using them, my Rimworld currently has 219 running, and I can't go back to vanilla, so i'm definitely not saying to kill mods)
I would say most of the community on these forums are programmers however. You look at every devlog, or most posts, and it seems to usually turn into some kind of discussion on the coding behind something or how people would code it differently, or something about an "engine" and not the car kind. The people who don't understand the code then don't usually post anything, (until Lindsey came along with shiny good stuff,) as we had next to nothing to talk about that wasn't speculation on a gameplay feature, or a hopeful suggestion. The usual on-going code-discussion seems just too intimidating for anyone unfamiliar with the jargon to join in on. This is why I have under 50 posts to my name, but have been hanging around, trying to comprehend things since I signed up 5 years ago this month. So with that being pointed out, I think the bias may lean a lot more towards modding and changing the code, which is why I can see these tools are useful and maybe exciting additions, but as just a player, it only causes me to lose faith or hype or something that I didn't think I would lose about the game appearing anytime soon. I guess what I'm trying to say is to not forget about the players. The people like me who don't know a damn thing about modding or coding and at this point just really want to sit in a ship and shoot people, or watch as their hundreds of trade ships amass them great wealth, or conquer whole systems and start wars that will go down in the universes history books.
I'm not trying to speak for the people who don't post, but I think a lot of the views on these threads are from people who may feel the same way I do? (Note: The last devlog had 184,000 views and only 208 posts.) It's getting real hard waiting and telling your friends that any kind of playable beta is coming soon; the word keeps losing all value and meaning.
Josh:
(Note: I still like mods and will use definitely be using them, my Rimworld currently has 219 running, and I can't go back to vanilla, so i'm definitely not saying to kill mods)
I would say most of the community on these forums are programmers however. You look at every devlog, or most posts, and it seems to usually turn into some kind of discussion on the coding behind something or how people would code it differently, or something about an "engine" and not the car kind. The people who don't understand the code then don't usually post anything, (until Lindsey came along with shiny good stuff,) as we had next to nothing to talk about that wasn't speculation on a gameplay feature, or a hopeful suggestion. The usual on-going code-discussion seems just too intimidating for anyone unfamiliar with the jargon to join in on. This is why I have under 50 posts to my name, but have been hanging around, trying to comprehend things since I signed up 5 years ago this month. So with that being pointed out, I think the bias may lean a lot more towards modding and changing the code, which is why I can see these tools are useful and maybe exciting additions, but as just a player, it only causes me to lose faith or hype or something that I didn't think I would lose about the game appearing anytime soon. I guess what I'm trying to say is to not forget about the players. The people like me who don't know a damn thing about modding or coding and at this point just really want to sit in a ship and shoot people, or watch as their hundreds of trade ships amass them great wealth, or conquer whole systems and start wars that will go down in the universes history books.
I'm not trying to speak for the people who don't post, but I think a lot of the views on these threads are from people who may feel the same way I do? (Note: The last devlog had 184,000 views and only 208 posts.) It's getting real hard waiting and telling your friends that any kind of playable beta is coming soon; the word keeps losing all value and meaning.
Josh:
Spoiler: SHOW
Post
Mon Mar 12, 2018 12:15 am
#44
Please let actual game content get started now. I don't want to wait another year before we see gameplay progress.
Re: [Josh] Friday, March 9, 2018
I agree and that's why I've been fairly quiet when these sort of dev-logs come out. I'm here for the gameplay. It's going to take a while to implement what's already been programmed in the past, let alone what else needs to be done to get us to a beta state. At this rate Limit Theory will be in development for at least another year if features don't begin to be worked on immediately. I have to wonder just how many more tools are needed to get LT to the point where the game will actually begin to take shape. I'm hoping we are done with tools and can now get started on game features.
Please let actual game content get started now. I don't want to wait another year before we see gameplay progress.
Post
Mon Mar 12, 2018 3:47 am
#45
Re: [Josh] Friday, March 9, 2018
You gotta build tools to build a game, a lot of games are mods of themselves it's a great approach.
The issue with the other times this was tried was that the core game engine wasn't solid, it is now, so now is the time to build the tools to allow the content to flow.
Forza Josh.
The issue with the other times this was tried was that the core game engine wasn't solid, it is now, so now is the time to build the tools to allow the content to flow.
Forza Josh.