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Re: [Josh] Friday, March 9, 2018

#202
Naed wrote:
Sat Mar 31, 2018 11:27 am
In reality (as in, the current situation that the devs have dug out for themselves, broken promise after broken promise). That just isnt enough. The only viable (long term) solution is to come forth with a plan that they then stick to. (that oft wished for consistency) And even then. Their reputation will be marked by their current behaviour for a LONG time.
Josh has provided another update, so this may be somewhat moot, but I can't say I agree.

What fraction of the existing LT Community - as defined by the forums + KS backers - are so p*ssed at Josh and the other devs that they'll hold a grudge about missed deadlines past the release of the game? And, assuming that the game is half-decent and finds a reasonable audience, who will listen to them? After all, I bet the gaming press write more than one article about LT's development and Josh's experiences... and that narrative will drown the few people still bleating "but I didn't get a dev-log for a few weeks!".

I still remember this post from back in the dark days from Employee 2-4601 that I think summed it up quite nicely:
Employee 2-4601 wrote:No one ever looks back on a game and says happily "That game kinda sucked in the end; but OH BOY did the developer ever nail that release date!"
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Re: [Josh] Friday, March 9, 2018

#203
mcsven wrote:
Fri Apr 06, 2018 3:24 pm
Naed wrote:
Sat Mar 31, 2018 11:27 am
In reality (as in, the current situation that the devs have dug out for themselves, broken promise after broken promise). That just isnt enough. The only viable (long term) solution is to come forth with a plan that they then stick to. (that oft wished for consistency) And even then. Their reputation will be marked by their current behaviour for a LONG time.
Josh has provided another update, so this may be somewhat moot, but I can't say I agree.

What fraction of the existing LT Community - as defined by the forums + KS backers - are so p*ssed at Josh and the other devs that they'll hold a grudge about missed deadlines past the release of the game? And, assuming that the game is half-decent and finds a reasonable audience, who will listen to them? After all, I bet the gaming press write more than one article about LT's development and Josh's experiences... and that narrative will drown the few people still bleating "but I didn't get a dev-log for a few weeks!".
Considering how poorly Josh has been handling his PR (on all fronts). He might be in for a very rough awakening when he (sometime in the future) is ready to actually start thinking about actual release day related PR. Because if he has handled the gaming press like he has handled PR in other places? He is going to need the most unbiased journalist in the history of the internet, for them to even spend time reading his press release about the game.
mcsven wrote:
Fri Apr 06, 2018 3:24 pm
I still remember this post from back in the dark days from Employee 2-4601 that I think summed it up quite nicely:
Employee 2-4601 wrote:No one ever looks back on a game and says happily "That game kinda sucked in the end; but OH BOY did the developer ever nail that release date!"
But that is the joy of things like this. Time will tell.
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Re: [Josh] Friday, March 9, 2018

#205
Naed wrote:Considering how poorly Josh has been handling his PR (on all fronts). He might be in for a very rough awakening when he (sometime in the future) is ready to actually start thinking about actual release day related PR. Because if he has handled the gaming press like he has handled PR in other places? He is going to need the most unbiased journalist in the history of the internet, for them to even spend time reading his press release about the game.
I'm not entirely sure what you're classifying as "bad PR" here. As far as I can make out, his interactions with the press were wholly positive, back in the day. And from what I've observed of his interactions with people (and myself) on the forum and in IRC the man himself is unfailingly well mannered.

I'm sure that if he gets to the point of having to deal with the press properly then there will be a learning curve, just like there will be one after the game is released. A whole set of new community issues will present themselves. But I have yet to see a track record of behaviour that indicates there is likely to be a problem.
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Re: [Josh] Friday, March 9, 2018

#206
mcsven wrote:
Sat Apr 07, 2018 1:24 pm
I'm not entirely sure what you're classifying as "bad PR" here. As far as I can make out, his interactions with the press were wholly positive, back in the day. And from what I've observed of his interactions with people (and myself) on the forum and in IRC the man himself is unfailingly well mannered.
the again falling off communication with not honored promises or even a "yeah, sorry, cant make it." post. (or the failed promise from Linsey for her nonexisting "last" post)

every bit of (non) communication is PR.
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Re: [Josh] Friday, March 9, 2018

#207
mcsven wrote:
Sat Apr 07, 2018 1:24 pm
Naed wrote:Considering how poorly Josh has been handling his PR (on all fronts). He might be in for a very rough awakening when he (sometime in the future) is ready to actually start thinking about actual release day related PR. Because if he has handled the gaming press like he has handled PR in other places? He is going to need the most unbiased journalist in the history of the internet, for them to even spend time reading his press release about the game.
I'm not entirely sure what you're classifying as "bad PR" here. As far as I can make out, his interactions with the press were wholly positive, back in the day. And from what I've observed of his interactions with people (and myself) on the forum and in IRC the man himself is unfailingly well mannered.

I'm sure that if he gets to the point of having to deal with the press properly then there will be a learning curve, just like there will be one after the game is released. A whole set of new community issues will present themselves. But I have yet to see a track record of behaviour that indicates there is likely to be a problem.
As Cornflakes mentions. Everything you do (as a self publishing independent developer) is PR.

Yes, it might seem unfair to some.

But everything Josh and his team does is part of PR.

So when they break promises, that is bad PR.

Now, just for the sake of example. Let us say we are in the "close to launch" phase (the phase where you really want to build up the hype for the game) and Josh goes into a hidey-hole for the n-th time.

How do you think that is going to work out? Do you think a game journalist is going to "give him a break because his life was hard"? That is not how media works in this day and age. There is always another game to give coverage to. This is undeniable fact.

There are people that do not agree with my previous statement about consistency being important. (their point was that this (LT development) is not youtube). Newsflash people. Hype is not built by disappearing for weeks. Trust is not built by disappearing for weeks. Confidence in a developer is not built by disappearing for weeks.

You might think that this is an exaggeration. That is fair. But please, by all means, look around. How many people are left on this forum? How many actually care for LT? How many of the backers are actually still around? What about the Council?

I have said it before, and i will keep saying it untill Josh and team actually change their ways. He needs to wake up and start being consistent. Because currently, this is not the LT community. This it the REKT community with a sub forum that once in a blue moon might have some randomly related LT info posted.

And another related question for you: What happens the day that Talvieno bleeds out from holding it all (the community) together with his lifeblood? Who is going to step up? Heck, who would want to?
Last edited by Naed on Tue Apr 10, 2018 10:25 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: [Josh] Friday, March 9, 2018

#209
Naed wrote:
Mon Apr 09, 2018 11:10 am
And another related question for you: What hapepns the day that Talvieno bleeds out from holding it all (the community) together with his lifeblood? Who is going to step up? Heck, who would want to?
Perish the thought!
But I agree that Talv make more to maintain the community/forum than the developpers or the game!

If and when a game is released it may change; until then, let’s hope Josh sees Talv value and find a way to keep him around!
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Re: [Josh] Friday, March 9, 2018

#210
CSE wrote:
Mon Apr 09, 2018 3:50 pm
Naed wrote:
Mon Apr 09, 2018 11:10 am
And another related question for you: What hapepns the day that Talvieno bleeds out from holding it all (the community) together with his lifeblood? Who is going to step up? Heck, who would want to?
Perish the thought!
But I agree that Talv make more to maintain the community/forum than the developpers or the game!

If and when a game is released it may change; until then, let’s hope Josh sees Talv value and find a way to keep him around!
I'll absolutely agree that Talv is fantastic! But being a community manager is stressful. Talv, you're taking vacations right? Like, really, you need to f'off out of here and put your feet up for a few days/weeks :D
Shoot ALL the things!

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