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Re: [Josh] Friday, March 9, 2018

I have to admit that the screenshots don't really give me a sense of intuitivity [sic], but it'll probably be really simple once I can actually fiddle around in it for a bit. Still, it seems to look easy for most and that's cool. Most of my problem I think is that my experience in coding is so limited that I don't really have a sense of how things connect between the different sections in those screenies.
Still, good progress is good progress :thumbup:

Re: [Josh] Friday, March 9, 2018

Lavaflow wrote:
Sat Mar 10, 2018 10:28 pm
I have to admit that the screenshots don't really give me a sense of intuitivity [sic], but it'll probably be really simple once I can actually fiddle around in it for a bit. Still, it seems to look easy for most and that's cool. Most of my problem I think is that my experience in coding is so limited that I don't really have a sense of how things connect between the different sections in those screenies.
Still, good progress is good progress :thumbup:
Looks pretty intuitive to me. That being said I've put up with some pretty unintuitive things so my standards may just be extremely low. :P
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Re: [Josh] Friday, March 9, 2018

1st post and first time here and although new to this forum, I is OLD for a gamer, which also means in my humble opinion, I think what is being attempted here is amazing. I played elite (yes the original) back in the day, I played Freelancer to death and lots of Freelancer mods (I still do). So for what it's worth in my opinion... getting the back end right, right from the start IS KEY to this project's future. Freelancer had so much more potential in it, but it was hurried which also meant the back end was not really done right. it has been modded but not easily and it took a lot of effort by a lot of people and a relatively long time for that to happen. if this project can get to release and modding does start to happen relatively quickly and easily, then this could be massive, for both the developers or is that developer!

My point being, is that having coded and knowing just what a monumental task something like this can become, then having a tool suite, that is as good as this LOOKS like it is shaping up to be, then going forward, the space gaming world will have a tool set, that will really bring masses of modder's and fans alike, I see bees, flies and honeypots galore. I hope I'm not dead before this all becomes a reality for Josh. As for the game, well from Freelancer to Crossfire 2 to discovery etc, you get the point, perfection is not needed, but having something that ten's of thousands of people or more. can tinker and play with for the next 10 years or more, well that's something that has to be gotten relatively right from start, otherwise nobody will bother or care, I get it Josh, games come and go, but some are built to last :)

4th March 2003 is when Freelancer was released - that game is over 15 years old and people still think of it as better than almost all space games that came before it and after and is still being actively modded and multiplayer servers are still active for some mods. This could very well become the next big space sim, that draws a lot of people back into the fold, always keep in mind, playability, enjoyability, ease of introduction, the thrill of the kill and that feeling that you can become the best of the best, is still what drives a lot of players.

If you get this right, then it will last, if you get this wrong, then see what can happen!

It's OK he's an old mate of mine, he doesn't care and he burned out badly, MANY TIMES, so get it right, don't let pressure get to you, use it to see more clearly into what is needed to be accomplished and what is just bogging you down in code that may never be of any real use to you or anyone else. Matt was a gaming developer god at one time and I used to watch him burn himself out, it's not worth it, but UNLIKE Matt's games, you don't need to sell millions of copies of this, you just need to develop and license the toolset, so as to launch a million space ships on their journeys :)

Best of luck

Re: [Josh] Friday, March 9, 2018

Welcome to the forums, Hal! :wave: Very glad to have you here!

Personally, I'm not really worried about development going forward. I completely understand that people are concerned Josh is going down another rabbit hole, but I'm going to do my best to make sure he stays on track. I think it'll be fine. :)
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Re: [Josh] Friday, March 9, 2018


Okay, but seriously. Though I am weary of the previous workflow optimization tools and the effects they had, there are actually two things josh has going for him now. On the one hand a fast and stable base thanks to Adams work, on the other hand a team that is able to intervene should Josh drift too far off the deep end. So really hope your new tool delivers. I really hope for it being referenced in the next log of either of your colleagues just to see wether or not that time was wasted.
[hypes internälly]

Re: [Josh] Friday, March 9, 2018

LindseyReid wrote:
Fri Mar 09, 2018 3:59 pm
FIRST lol!!! THIS IS SO COOOOOOOOOL!!!! I'm so excited to use this!!!
JoshParnell wrote:
Fri Mar 09, 2018 3:55 pm
And in case this wasn't implied, LT will ship with this editor for your use in modding.
teehee, I get to use it now :V

edit: Josh didn't get the joke; it's funny because i m a d e v e l o p e r
So, Lindsey (you lucky duck) :)
Does this mean that you can create a "mod" for ship creation, i.e. mod_fighter_ships.lua
.. and then create a new mod, that has a dependency on "mod_fighter_ships.lua", where you can create capital ships?
.. or, do you have a "mod_ships.lua", and create two new mods:
- "mod_fighters.lua" for the aforementioned (wonderful work) of the fighters, which has a dependency on "mod_ships.lua"?
- create a new mod called "mod_capitals.lua", which has a dependency on "mod_ships.lua", so as to re-use the ship creation tech, but expand it for capital ships?

of course, "mod_ships.lua" (which will be a part of core), possibly has a dependency for core?
Or, how does the workflow change for you now?

My previous "smiley" post, was because I had no access to a keyboard.. but I'm interested in hearing from both Adam and you on how this new tech will help you both on the next (and ongoing) stage(s) of LT.. content :)

As always, keep us posted on your experience of the new tech, as even the screenies from Josh's post, excites me (maybe it has to do with his colour scheme), but as I like to say, I'm a "twig in a forest, detail kinda guy" :ghost: :thumbup: :angel:

In Josh We Trust

Re: [Josh] Friday, March 9, 2018

I concur, I think it would be very interesting to hear from Adam and Lindsey about how this new tool changes and presumably enhances their workflows as well. And might I suggest that Tal be given access to this editor to make a couple small mods, if he hasn't already, so that it's utility can really be tested.

Getting real feedback on this tool from non-josh's will thus quiet or justify concerns that this was a waste of time. :)
Challenging your assumptions is good for your health, good for your business, and good for your future. Stay skeptical but never undervalue the importance of a new and unfamiliar perspective.
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Re: [Josh] Friday, March 9, 2018

The tool looks nice, but gameplay would look MUCH nicer. I don't want to sound sour and maybe due to my lack of programming understanding I won't value this tool as much, but wouldn't this sort of thing be better implemented closer to release or even during the end of beta? In my mind the beta should be for the core game, not for the mod efficiency. I feel like having mods in a beta just causes problems; people may not report bugs because they think their mod is causing it, and the game gets shipped with a couple missed things. Definitely have the capabilities there, I'm not saying to ignore them, but test the vanilla first. A bug-free foundation of the vanilla game should have highest priority in my opinion.
(Note: I still like mods and will use definitely be using them, my Rimworld currently has 219 running, and I can't go back to vanilla, so i'm definitely not saying to kill mods)

I would say most of the community on these forums are programmers however. You look at every devlog, or most posts, and it seems to usually turn into some kind of discussion on the coding behind something or how people would code it differently, or something about an "engine" and not the car kind. The people who don't understand the code then don't usually post anything, (until Lindsey came along with shiny good stuff,) as we had next to nothing to talk about that wasn't speculation on a gameplay feature, or a hopeful suggestion. The usual on-going code-discussion seems just too intimidating for anyone unfamiliar with the jargon to join in on. This is why I have under 50 posts to my name, but have been hanging around, trying to comprehend things since I signed up 5 years ago this month. So with that being pointed out, I think the bias may lean a lot more towards modding and changing the code, which is why I can see these tools are useful and maybe exciting additions, but as just a player, it only causes me to lose faith or hype or something that I didn't think I would lose about the game appearing anytime soon. I guess what I'm trying to say is to not forget about the players. The people like me who don't know a damn thing about modding or coding and at this point just really want to sit in a ship and shoot people, or watch as their hundreds of trade ships amass them great wealth, or conquer whole systems and start wars that will go down in the universes history books.

I'm not trying to speak for the people who don't post, but I think a lot of the views on these threads are from people who may feel the same way I do? (Note: The last devlog had 184,000 views and only 208 posts.) It's getting real hard waiting and telling your friends that any kind of playable beta is coming soon; the word keeps losing all value and meaning.

Spoiler:      SHOW
Josh, obviously I think people just want a game or beta of a game at this point, and I know you have already full on admitted that you believe the game would be done by now had mods not been involved. You also in the same post (Dec 4th 2017 devlog,) mentioned this: "What it is that I love doing above all else: it's probably not game design, it's probably not even procedural nebula algorithms :ghost: things that allow other people to realize creation with ease, simplicity, and that is the kind of thing that can get me out of bed in the morning. " This has become much more apparent with this devlog I think.

I know funding may be pretty low at this point (or nonexistent? =S) going on 4 years alone (plus music guy,) and 1 year with 3 employees, but would it maybe be a good idea to try to bring on one more person to focus solely on gameplay/design of the game? Hell it could be one of the people on this forum for all I care. I would just really like to see ANY kind of progress in gameplay, because as far as I know, all the gameplay that was in previous iterations of LT has not been transferred to this new script-something version yet, meaning we have technically gone backwards in terms of gameplay implementation. It's pretty disheartening to continuously read "You know what that means! Gameplay is JUST around the corner!" frequently in devlogs, but with no 'corner' ever in sight.

Re: [Josh] Friday, March 9, 2018

Ateerix wrote:
Sun Mar 11, 2018 10:34 pm
Good points
I agree and that's why I've been fairly quiet when these sort of dev-logs come out. I'm here for the gameplay. It's going to take a while to implement what's already been programmed in the past, let alone what else needs to be done to get us to a beta state. At this rate Limit Theory will be in development for at least another year if features don't begin to be worked on immediately. I have to wonder just how many more tools are needed to get LT to the point where the game will actually begin to take shape. I'm hoping we are done with tools and can now get started on game features.

Please let actual game content get started now. I don't want to wait another year before we see gameplay progress.

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