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Re: [Lindsey] Friday, December 15, 2017

#91
So, essentially:
  • Mostly-flat front
  • Top or bottom should taper away, making the front part of the ship largest, and the top "longer" than the bottom - OR, the ship should appear aerodynamic.
  • Engines should (likely) be plainly visible with some kind of visualization so you can tell (from the front) where they are and that they're facing away (Cockpit window does not suffice)
  • Design should be thin and free of any areas "bulkier" than the front
They do seem a lot more difficult to design. You have to have more constraints on them so you can parse their shapes properly.

Good finds, Kekasi. :thumbup: I actually like most of those.
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Re: [Lindsey] Friday, December 15, 2017

#92
Talvieno wrote:
Thu Dec 21, 2017 1:17 pm
Good finds, Kekasi. :thumbup: I actually like most of those.
Thanks! Anything to help out LT!

I think it's very important for them to not look like a ship that's turned. That's going to be the most difficult.

Engines will show which way is forward, but up will be hard. Maybe tapering will be enough.

I think bulk will be fine as long as they have a narrow profile. Fighters are generally small though, so too much bulk and they'll look like corvettes or cruisers.
An idea that is not dangerous is unworthy of being called an idea at all. - Oscar Wilde

We often refuse to accept an idea merely because the tone of voice in which it has been expressed is unsympathetic to us. - Friedrich Nietzsche
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Re: [Lindsey] Friday, December 15, 2017

#94
Talvieno wrote:
Thu Dec 21, 2017 1:35 pm
Homeworld's mothership has a vertical hull, but Homeworld doesn't permit you to tilt your view; you always know which way is "up".

Image

The "aerodynamic" tapering also helps considerably, but there's still no way to know which end is "up" - even with a good look at the engines.
As long as true 3d flight is allowed, I can't see an easy way for these ships to be seen as anything other than a giant wing.

It really depends how much "up" will affect gameplay, and how the devs (read: Lindsey) value clarity. Not knowing what you're looking at could lead to some cool experiences, especially if an empire's fleet all are unusual.

Edit: forgot quotation marks on up
An idea that is not dangerous is unworthy of being called an idea at all. - Oscar Wilde

We often refuse to accept an idea merely because the tone of voice in which it has been expressed is unsympathetic to us. - Friedrich Nietzsche
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Re: [Lindsey] Friday, December 15, 2017

#95
Kekasi wrote:
Thu Dec 21, 2017 3:28 pm
It really depends how much "up" will affect gameplay, and how the devs (read: Lindsey) value clarity. Not knowing what you're looking at could lead to some cool experiences, especially if an empire's fleet all are unusual.
Remember, Josh is basing this on Freelancer, Freelancer allowed free rotation so long as you kept turning, once you returned to forward flight it'd reorient you back to flat.

All the planets and parts of the map were based on this flat, and you could literally fly over the top of everything by just being a bit above stuff and flying level.

I expect this will be the case now, it makes things simpler to have the Z layer purely useful in combat, and not outside of that. it makes mapping easier, it makes world generation easier (2D is far easier than 3D) and it keeps people from getting confused. (People are easily confused)

So expect Up to matter while not in combat, but while in combat I would expect it's not useful.
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Re: [Lindsey] Friday, December 15, 2017

#96
LT Ships 12.21.17

- Much better than yesterday IMHO
- Did away with vertical hull for now
- Added winglets to Classic algorithm (those wing tip things)
- More hull types for Surreal algorithm
- Other small tweaks here and there
- Josh added engine trails :D
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"You’ve got to work on something dangerous. You have to work on something that makes you uncertain. Something that makes you doubt yourself... because it stimulates you to do things you haven’t done before. The whole thing is if you know where you’re going, you’ve gone, as the poet says. And that’s death."
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Re: [Lindsey] Friday, December 15, 2017

#99
I'm not entirely certain the algorithm knows how to make a recognizable engine yet. Parts I thought were engines lacked trails and there were trails in… strange places. Wingtips, the centers of large planes, apparently floating in space…
Perhaps additional constraints need to be placed on engines. Typically engines are somewhat deep, so trails shouldn't come normal of thin planes. For the trails pictured here, they're also probably relatively narrow. Unless you want to get all crazy and try a linear aerospike or something (which would require a more complex trail that has actual 3D structure), they should be of similar vertical and horizontal dimensions.
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Re: [Lindsey] Friday, December 15, 2017

#101
Talvieno wrote:
Thu Dec 21, 2017 6:47 pm
No, it's simpler than that. She'll just add engine-like shapes on connectors, in areas where they need to be. She just hasn't added them yet.
Will engines be attached to ships, or visible on the outside?
Or will engines be not visible on the model?

If they're visible, can we slap engines on wherever they'll fit, or will there be preset connectors?
I'm worried that some ships won't have room for engines in logical places, or that the preset engine locations will be clipping through everything.

This is pretty much cleared up with hidden engines, but weapons will have the same issues, except they'll be shooting through wings if badly placed.

Edit: Forgot to mention how good these are looking.
Like seriously, there are some that are gorgeous and are comparable to hand designed ships.

And there are some that you know would exist in reality, but no one would design unless they had to. Looking at you sad-fish. The fact that both gorgeous ships, functional ships, and ugly but effective ships are all present makes me very excited.

A little worried about trying to keep consistent styles for a single manufacturer across different ship classes, but I'm excited to see the way you work on it Lindsey.

Edit2: clarification
An idea that is not dangerous is unworthy of being called an idea at all. - Oscar Wilde

We often refuse to accept an idea merely because the tone of voice in which it has been expressed is unsympathetic to us. - Friedrich Nietzsche
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Re: [Lindsey] Friday, December 15, 2017

#102
By what I said, I meant she'll add shapes like this:

Image

The body of a thruster. It's fairly simple, and it's essentially what Josh was already doing with ships. It just provides a believable-looking place for thruster jets to come out.


Weapons are fairly simple as well. Just make sure they're on a large flat plane with a lot of clear, open space to fire through, and disable turreted ones when they would fire through a ship part/don't let them turn that far.
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Re: [Lindsey] Friday, December 15, 2017

#103
Kekasi wrote:
Thu Dec 21, 2017 9:40 pm


Edit: Forgot to mention how good these are looking.
Like seriously, there are some that are gorgeous and are comparable to hand designed ships.

And there are some that you know would exist in reality, but no one would design unless they had to. Looking at you sad-fish. The fact that both gorgeous ships, functional ships, and ugly but effective ships are all present makes me very excited.

I 4000% agree with you there!
LindseyReid wrote:
Thu Dec 21, 2017 5:37 pm
LT Ships 12.21.17

- Much better than yesterday IMHO
- Did away with vertical hull for now
- Added winglets to Classic algorithm (those wing tip things)
- More hull types for Surreal algorithm
- Other small tweaks here and there
- Josh added engine trails :D
:clap: :angel: :o An emoji is worth a couple thousand words
Devoted to providing LT with daily doses of eureka moments.
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Re: [Lindsey] Friday, December 15, 2017

#104
Talvieno wrote:
Thu Dec 21, 2017 10:33 pm
Weapons are fairly simple as well. Just make sure they're on a large flat plane with a lot of clear, open space to fire through, and disable turreted ones when they would fire through a ship part/don't let them turn that far.
Does that mean we'll have non-omnidirectional weapons coverage on large ships? Or merely a graphical effect? Could be interesting if you could assault a much larger ship in a place where the coverage was thin, or roll your capital to prevent such maneuvers, or have a definite broadside/spinal mount/et cetera.

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