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Re: [Lindsey] Friday, December 15, 2017

#106
The progress on ship generation is amazingly quick, congrats :clap:
Will all the ships be unique in the game? Or do you intend to generate a few models for each faction?
Squadrons of identical ships can look pretty nice.

Also, I suppose the efficiency of ships will be quite random? The number/position of thrusters affects mobility, the distribution of weapons affects destructive power and survivability, etc...
It should be simple to keep some stats on each ship model (e.g. number of kills, number of encounters it survived), and have a random chance of reusing existing models weighted by their scores. And voilà, you get an in-game natural selection!
I don't know if this discussion already happened on the forum, but I will definitely play with modding this at release :D
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Re: [Lindsey] Friday, December 15, 2017

#108
bdav wrote:
Fri Dec 22, 2017 3:46 am
The progress on ship generation is amazingly quick, congrats :clap:
Will all the ships be unique in the game? Or do you intend to generate a few models for each faction?
Squadrons of identical ships can look pretty nice.

Also, I suppose the efficiency of ships will be quite random? The number/position of thrusters affects mobility, the distribution of weapons affects destructive power and survivability, etc...
It should be simple to keep some stats on each ship model (e.g. number of kills, number of encounters it survived), and have a random chance of reusing existing models weighted by their scores. And voilà, you get an in-game natural selection!
I don't know if this discussion already happened on the forum, but I will definitely play with modding this at release :D
I think the plan is for the ships basic shape to be attached to the blueprint for it, so squads could all have the same blueprint and would look the same. You could however, change their hardpoint equipment to give them different capabilities.

Not sure on the tracking of history for pilots and ships, but I would think most of those stats would be tied to the pilot if they were being logged. If they aren't, it should be very easy to mod in a significant event logger that displays pilot stats, considering what Josh has shown us previously for structure.

Also, seen some talk about orienting as if there is an "up". Shouldn't players always orient as if the nearest planet is down? Idk where I read that once in a scifi novel, but you take the largest orbital body nearby and treat it as "down", without respect to the equator or the planets rotation. Anywhere you are around the planet, the closest point on the surface is always down.
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Re: [Lindsey] Friday, December 15, 2017

#109
LindseyReid wrote:
Thu Dec 21, 2017 5:37 pm
LT Ships 12.21.17

- Much better than yesterday IMHO
- Did away with vertical hull for now
- Added winglets to Classic algorithm (those wing tip things)
- More hull types for Surreal algorithm
- Other small tweaks here and there
- Josh added engine trails :D
Hey Lindsey, these pictures are phenominal! Im amazed at the progress made in such a short amount of time. These are starting to look like intentionally designed ships rather than procedural.

I wonder, for each of these pictures, how many bad ships are there that don't get pictures? Also, what progress if any is there on the ships intended function influencing design? I know there are separate algorithms for fighters vs capital ships, but are their considerations that would make a ship look more like an Xwing vs. A Tie-fighter? Just wondering what factors you might be considering as variables in that equation
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Re: [Lindsey] Friday, December 15, 2017

#110
bdav wrote:
Fri Dec 22, 2017 3:46 am
The number/position of thrusters affects mobility
This will probably not be a thing. Thrusters do not represent the ship's engine(s). A ship with two thrusters could potentially fly as fast as, or faster than, a ship with four. They may affect thrust if you target and destroy them individually, but that could go either way at this point.
the distribution of weapons affects destructive power and survivability, etc...
Because this affects how much DPS you're able to deal, the number of weapons you see on the ship will be equal to the number you have installed.
It should be simple to keep some stats on each ship model (e.g. number of kills, number of encounters it survived), and have a random chance of reusing existing models weighted by their scores. And voilà, you get an in-game natural selection!
I don't know if this discussion already happened on the forum, but I will definitely play with modding this at release :D
I'm not sure this has been considered specifically. That's a fun idea! :) Ship models will get re-used when players (human or otherwise) use blueprints to build them. If these ships are bad, and the owners of the ships get killed, that will lead to those ships disappearing from the market. The value of blueprints may lead to their being copied and purchased by others, so if the survivability of these ships is tracked and tied to the blueprint's value, that may lead to natural selection by itself. I'm not sure whether it will actually work that way or not, though.
MyNameWuzTaken wrote:
Fri Dec 22, 2017 6:41 am
Not sure on the tracking of history for pilots and ships, but I would think most of those stats would be tied to the pilot if they were being logged. If they aren't, it should be very easy to mod in a significant event logger that displays pilot stats, considering what Josh has shown us previously for structure.
I don't think a pilot's individual skill will be tracked - an RPG element like that is very non-Freelancer and would be difficult to implement satisfactorily into the planned systems, for both gameplay and technical reasons.
Also, seen some talk about orienting as if there is an "up". Shouldn't players always orient as if the nearest planet is down? Idk where I read that once in a scifi novel, but you take the largest orbital body nearby and treat it as "down", without respect to the equator or the planets rotation. Anywhere you are around the planet, the closest point on the surface is always down.
When I referenced "up", I only referenced it in terms to landing, really. The most important part is, which way is "forward" and which way is "backwards". It's easy to tell which side is the back - look for the thrusters. But which side is the front? If you're looking at any side except for the rear, it may not be immediately obvious - especially if the ship has stopped near an asteroid to mine.

As to the orientation, the plan is for the universe to have an "up" and a "down" specifically, like in Freelancer. A more realistic sci-fi sim might have what you describe, but Josh has always put "fun" and "gameplay" ahead of realism, and the simple fact is that what you describe would be rather disorienting. Humans don't think well in 3D. We're more comfortable with two dimensions. :) It makes for better maps, too.
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Re: [Lindsey] Friday, December 15, 2017

#111
MyNameWuzTaken wrote:
Fri Dec 22, 2017 6:41 am
Also, seen some talk about orienting as if there is an "up". Shouldn't players always orient as if the nearest planet is down? Idk where I read that once in a scifi novel, but you take the largest orbital body nearby and treat it as "down", without respect to the equator or the planets rotation. Anywhere you are around the planet, the closest point on the surface is always down.
or you take the ecliptic of the system as the base plane with the positive ω vector of the general rotation of the system's major bodies as "up".
defined base plane (all the major bodies are on it anyway) and a defined up direction.

that works everywhere in a system, not only the vicinity of major bodies.
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Re: [Lindsey] Friday, December 15, 2017

#112
+1 to all of Talv's replies.

And thank you to everybody for the kind words ^^
MyNameWuzTaken wrote:
Fri Dec 22, 2017 7:54 am
Hey Lindsey, these pictures are phenominal! Im amazed at the progress made in such a short amount of time. These are starting to look like intentionally designed ships rather than procedural.

I wonder, for each of these pictures, how many bad ships are there that don't get pictures? Also, what progress if any is there on the ships intended function influencing design? I know there are separate algorithms for fighters vs capital ships, but are their considerations that would make a ship look more like an Xwing vs. A Tie-fighter? Just wondering what factors you might be considering as variables in that equation
I have two algorithms right now: Classic and Surreal. Classic creates a very standard fighter/bomber type, and Surreal creates a fighter-sized ship, but with more unique variation. X-Wing is definitely possible in Classic, wheras Tie-Fighter is more likely to be Surreal because of the spherical hull. I'm probably not going to get more granular than this between now and PAX.

The Classic fighter algorithm produces consistently good ships almost 100% of the time. The Surreal one... gets a little strange, but I think they all at least look interesting. I take around 100 screenshots a day and filter it down to about 30, so that means the cream-of-the-crop you're seeing is 30% of the algorithm output.
Ship Inspiration Pinterest!! (send me stuff)

"You’ve got to work on something dangerous. You have to work on something that makes you uncertain. Something that makes you doubt yourself... because it stimulates you to do things you haven’t done before. The whole thing is if you know where you’re going, you’ve gone, as the poet says. And that’s death."
- Stephen Sondheim
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Re: [Lindsey] Friday, December 15, 2017

#113
Some quick ideas I came up with on how vertical hull ships might be recognizable as such:

1. Windows (again :D) could give some better orientation. Especially for fighters a cockpit window texture would basically be a "this side up" pointer.
2. Name of the ship as paint on the left and right side of the hull
3. Navigation lights, like in current aircraft

And again some very nice pictures, Lindsey. It's very nice to check back basically every day and to have some new shinies to look at :D
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Re: [Lindsey] Friday, December 15, 2017

#114
Thank you! ^^

Windows & other texturing features are a WIP!
Ship Inspiration Pinterest!! (send me stuff)

"You’ve got to work on something dangerous. You have to work on something that makes you uncertain. Something that makes you doubt yourself... because it stimulates you to do things you haven’t done before. The whole thing is if you know where you’re going, you’ve gone, as the poet says. And that’s death."
- Stephen Sondheim
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Re: [Lindsey] Friday, December 15, 2017

#115
LindseyReid wrote:
Fri Dec 22, 2017 12:45 pm
Thank you! ^^

Windows & other texturing features are a WIP!
Windows 0.1 is a WIP, I hope we can expect many upgrades and variants on those algorithms the same way you have classic and surreal variants down the road :)
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It's better to have questions you can't answer than answers you can't question.

Imagination Fertilizer
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Re: [Lindsey] Friday, December 15, 2017

#116
MyNameWuzTaken wrote:
Fri Dec 22, 2017 6:41 am
.... Shouldn't players always orient as if the nearest planet is down? Idk where I read that once in a scifi novel, but you take the largest orbital body nearby and treat it as "down", without respect to the equator or the planets rotation. Anywhere you are around the planet, the closest point on the surface is always down.
You're probably thinking about Orson Scott Card's "Ender's Game" (Link), one of my favourite scifi reads. He actually lets Ender say (main character in book): "whatever direction the enemy is comming from is down", which is such a cool way to not lose your head in 3D zero-grav combat :)

Oh - and btw - Lindsey, Josh and Adam, you guys are doing some awesome work. I'm afraid Josh and Adam are not getting their share of praise as they are not procudcing so much visual output, but seeing that Josh just slaps on some engine trails while passing by tells me there is a lot of "invisible" work going on in the background.

I wish everybod a really relaxing christmas season and a totally chilled new year!
(probably won't make it for a post at the proper time, so might as well get it over with ;)
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Re: [Lindsey] Friday, December 15, 2017

#118
Here's a link for those that want to watch the shinies in 720p (sorry, no 1080) at 60fps. Side note: YouTube's compression played havoc with the video.



This is a raw, unedited recording of the LT shipgen sandbox. I'm running it on a Nvidia 1050Ti mobile graphics card. Framerate stays over 300fps in most cases, sometimes going almost as high as 400fps. I was accidentally running it on my laptop's Intel integrated graphics chip at first - it managed a consistent 60fps, and although recording caused it to stutter a little, it still stayed above 25fps. In other words: performance is outstanding.

As you guys know, textures aren't in yet, nor are thruster/turret/weapon parts. That's probably next on the list.

There are no skipped ships here, so this gives you a pretty good indication of the current average quality. In short: Lindsey isn't cherry-picking ships. They legitimately rock. :)
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Re: [Lindsey] Friday, December 15, 2017

#119
Talvieno wrote:
Fri Dec 22, 2017 3:08 pm
There are no skipped ships here, so this gives you a pretty good indication of the current average quality. In short: Lindsey isn't cherry-picking ships. They legitimately rock. :)
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

Plofre wrote:
Fri Dec 22, 2017 1:31 pm
Oh - and btw - Lindsey, Josh and Adam, you guys are doing some awesome work. I'm afraid Josh and Adam are not getting their share of praise as they are not procudcing so much visual output, but seeing that Josh just slaps on some engine trails while passing by tells me there is a lot of "invisible" work going on in the background.

I wish everybod a really relaxing christmas season and a totally chilled new year!
(probably won't make it for a post at the proper time, so might as well get it over with ;)
Thank you so much Plofre! I'll pass this on to the team ^^
Ship Inspiration Pinterest!! (send me stuff)

"You’ve got to work on something dangerous. You have to work on something that makes you uncertain. Something that makes you doubt yourself... because it stimulates you to do things you haven’t done before. The whole thing is if you know where you’re going, you’ve gone, as the poet says. And that’s death."
- Stephen Sondheim

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