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Re: [Josh] Monday, October 23, 2017

#46
Hyperion wrote:
Tue Oct 24, 2017 10:43 am
LindseyReid wrote:
Tue Oct 24, 2017 10:21 am
Also, I'm starting with stations. :twisted:
My Grading System:
I saw your inpso post for stations, I love it!! I myself have a Pinterest board and a pile of books with pages marked with tabs for inspiration. And now a whole post!!!

The algorithms will slowly grow from being sub-par to passable to excellent. The stuff that your B and up ships are made of- curves, detail, and uniqueness- just take time to implement :D
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"You’ve got to work on something dangerous. You have to work on something that makes you uncertain. Something that makes you doubt yourself... because it stimulates you to do things you haven’t done before. The whole thing is if you know where you’re going, you’ve gone, as the poet says. And that’s death."
- Stephen Sondheim
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Re: [Josh] Monday, October 23, 2017

#48
LindseyReid wrote:
Tue Oct 24, 2017 10:12 am

Just to be clear - we're still not planning on having any manual art in LT.
I didn't think manual art was likely to be part of the package, I'm just hoping that the ships and stations will show a massive improvement over what we have seen so far. To be fair to Josh, he's always admitted that his efforts in this department were less than satisfactory. I'm still to be convinced that purely procedural can give any kind of "wow" factor to these important elements of the game.

Just convince me I'm wrong in my narrow thinking, Lindsey. :angel:
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Re: [Josh] Monday, October 23, 2017

#49
LindseyReid wrote:
Tue Oct 24, 2017 11:01 am
I saw your inpso post for stations, I love it!! I myself have a Pinterest board and a pile of books with pages marked with tabs for inspiration. And now a whole post!!!

The algorithms will slowly grow from being sub-par to passable to excellent. The stuff that your B and up ships are made of- curves, detail, and uniqueness- just take time to implement :D
:D I can't wait! mind sending me a link to said pinterest board? Also, come into IRC, lets chat :)
Talvieno wrote:
Tue Oct 24, 2017 11:02 am
That's fairly straightforward. "Make it curvy, and don't make it look like either a stick in a hoop, a DS9 clone, or boxes on a stick."
Sticks in hoops and DS9 clones have a place too, they just have no place in the pantheon of Awe-inspiring structures you'll encounter in the core systems of the greatest galactic empires. I'd be a bit sad if boxes and hoops were completely absent.
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When you're trying to fill an infinite multiverse, if you're not willing to consider the entire creative output of humanity as a starting point, you're wasting your time.
User: JoshParnell is accountable for this user's actions.
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Re: [Josh] Monday, October 23, 2017

#50
@Victor - I'll do my best!! ;)

@Hyperion - I'm actually having trouble connecting to the IRC today, although I have tried o_0 I'm working on it with Talv.
Pin board: https://www.pinterest.com/thelindseyrei ... -stations/
Blog | Twitter | Pinterest

"You’ve got to work on something dangerous. You have to work on something that makes you uncertain. Something that makes you doubt yourself... because it stimulates you to do things you haven’t done before. The whole thing is if you know where you’re going, you’ve gone, as the poet says. And that’s death."
- Stephen Sondheim
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Re: [Josh] Monday, October 23, 2017

#58
Hyperion wrote:
Tue Oct 24, 2017 10:43 am

My Grading System
No no no no no no no, that won't do :D That A+ station is just a truncated half-cylinder, mirrored and zoomed. It's not fancy at all! :P And A was made on drugs, it's impossible to understand where even to dock.

What was graded as C and D are the best in my opinion, and most fitting the Freelancer-like theme. Generally, I'd say that stations can look like anything and vary wildly between various functions, but to make them believable, their function should define form; and their function is defined by the faction that owns and operates them.

So, no Spikes of Villainy on the pirate bases, simply because it's impractical to have them. Pirates usually are low on money, low on resources, low on quality engineering, low on time, and being hunted down by the authorities; a hollowed-out asteroid deep inside the least-friendly asteroid field in the system is probably the absolute limit of their abilities.

And if it's a large pirate group controlling entire regions of space (like Corsairs in Freelancer), then they would have enough resources for crude, but sturdy constructions whenever they see fit, as well as well-hidden asteroid bases everywhere else.

If it's an Evil Empire-type faction, then there's no need for spikes o' doom either. You just make stuff big, and I mean REALLY BIG. And awe-inspiring. And having obligatory mooring port for a battleship, and heavy armour, and heavy turrets, and a lot of docking compartments with fighters ready to go. And a big, good-looking insignia of the Evil Empire in question.

If it's a big trading company, they'd be utilitarian to the max. Nothing fancy, just a collection of cramped internal spaces, big outside storage depots, mooring points for transports, and a single luxurious module for executives and the like. Same goes for any other big company - just add whatever industrial capacity is needed (mining, smelting, ship construction, industrial production, etc).

Sure, it'd make stations look less visually interesting, as in 'less of a modern art object and more of an actual space station'. It'd make the universe itself much more 'alive'. I'd also really love to see 'meshing' of different factions' styles - e.g. when one faction takes over other faction's station and starts adding modules to it, resulting in a Frankensteinish abomination that visually captures the history of this region of space.

It'd also be cool if destroying / adding new modules to the station and change of ownership / status trigger additions to the station history. Like, I don't know,

' [station constructed] Yuma border station was constructed by the Western Exploration & Trading company in the year 236 SA. [ownership change: WE&T -> none] It was abandoned in 328 SA due to the downsizing of the company. [ownership change: none -> $Local Crime] [status change: HP degradation over time] Briefly occupied by pirates and smugglers, it fell into disrepair. [ownership change: $Local Crime -> $Local Law Enforcement] [status change: repair] It was taken over by the Westworlds Police Department in 331 SA and returned into active service [module addition: {fighter dock} {long-rage scanners} ] following the installation of additional fighter docks and scanner systems. [trivia bit] Station provides protection for the Araz jumpgate and the 8th Westworlds trade line. '

I think that modular approach allows to do all that :monkey:
Survivor of the Josh Parnell Blackout of 2015.
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Re: [Josh] Monday, October 23, 2017

#59
Hyperion wrote:
Tue Oct 24, 2017 10:43 am
LindseyReid wrote:
Tue Oct 24, 2017 10:21 am
Also, I'm starting with stations. :twisted:
My Grading System:

F
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D
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C
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B
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A
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A+
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May the algorithms be ever in your favor :geek:
Hyperion, no E grade?

Welcome aboard Lindsey, can't wait for shineys that aren't Josh's "here is 9 different cylinders arbitrary stitched together" ship design :D
procedurally generated comment
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Re: [Josh] Monday, October 23, 2017

#60
outlander wrote:
Wed Oct 25, 2017 5:15 am
If it's a big trading company, they'd be utilitarian to the max. Nothing fancy, just a collection of cramped internal spaces, big outside storage depots, mooring points for transports, and a single luxurious module for executives and the like. Same goes for any other big company - just add whatever industrial capacity is needed (mining, smelting, ship construction, industrial production, etc).
The super utilitarian headquarters of the major Earth trading company, Amazon. Nothing fancy, just a collection of cramped internal spaces.
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:lol:

Sure, it'd make stations look less visually interesting, as in 'less of a modern art object and more of an actual space station'. It'd make the universe itself much more 'alive'. I'd also really love to see 'meshing' of different factions' styles - e.g. when one faction takes over other faction's station and starts adding modules to it, resulting in a Frankensteinish abomination that visually captures the history of this region of space.
I think you misunderstand my grading system. The grades reflect the most abstract geometry the algorithm is capable of handling while still looking good and coherent. Meaning that if the algorithm can output stations that look like what i Graded a B, it should additionally be able to output stations that look like C, D, and F as well, and perhaps stations like C and D will be very common. Stations that look like A or A+ should imo exist, but definitely shouldn't be the only kind of station in LT :)
Miklos wrote:
Wed Oct 25, 2017 6:03 am
Hyperion, no E grade?
The American grading system doesn't have an E, but here, if you want one :)
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When you're trying to fill an infinite multiverse, if you're not willing to consider the entire creative output of humanity as a starting point, you're wasting your time.
User: JoshParnell is accountable for this user's actions.

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