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Re: Tuesday, January 31, 2017

#61
Apropos efficiency:
Is Josh using an IDE (be it for C/C++ or LUA), that can handle code completion / marking syntax errors / jumping to declarations etc?

I have used a simple editor (Notepad++) for JavaScript development. While it technically works to develop on that, there is
a lot of loss in efficiency. As it involves a lot of scrolling and jumping to find definitions again, or not marking simple syntax problems like mistypes.
(that only materialize in the JavaScript-VM when running that specific part of the code)

So moving to an IDE that can handle this, was a BIG bost in development speed, and working with a growing codebase.
Its not as "cool" as working in a plain editor without syntax-highlighting, but I dont care, if it lets me handle a larger project.

By having an IDE know the code structure, it offloads a lot of memory (remembering declarations for example) from the developers brain to
the machine.

(In the old dev-videos I saw him using a relatively simple editor)
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Re: Tuesday, January 31, 2017

#62
Damocles wrote:Apropos efficiency:
Is Josh using an IDE (be it for C/C++ or LUA), that can handle code completion / marking syntax errors / jumping to declarations etc?

I have used a simple editor (Notepad++) for JavaScript development. While it technically works to develop on that, there is
a lot of loss in efficiency. As it involves a lot of scrolling and jumping to find definitions again, or not marking simple syntax problems like mistypes.
(that only materialize in the JavaScript-VM when running that specific part of the code)

So moving to an IDE that can handle this, was a BIG bost in development speed, and working with a growing codebase.
Its not as "cool" as working in a plain editor without syntax-highlighting, but I dont care, if it lets me handle a larger project.

By having an IDE know the code structure, it offloads a lot of memory (remembering declarations for example) from the developers brain to
the machine.

(In the old dev-videos I saw him using a relatively simple editor)
He uses Vim from memory, which is a standard complex text editor for linux.
I cant speak for everyone, but at least for myself, IDEs just get in the way.

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Re: Tuesday, January 31, 2017

#64
JoshParnell wrote: Threading is being explored. As I've said before, though, (and I don't think some people are hearing me when I say this), threading game logic is not like threading physics simulations or math computations or what-have-you. Game logic is massively interdependent, a perfect storm of a situation for death-by-mutexes or plain old memory corruption.
Excuse me, but I think you're underestimating physics simulations here, cause they're quite interdependent too. :P Doing pressure flow and gravity (where all particles influence all others), cooling and heating depending on 5 parameters (which are obviously influenced by pressure flows and gravity etc), some star formation which again is influenced by the rest and has an effect, supernovae, ...
After all, there are only a very limited set of parameters each object has (velocity, position, mass, volume, temperature, sometimes age and some chemical composition) and quite literally each thing changes all of them. Which would be ground for memory corruption if you do things wrong too.

In any case, scripting engine things aside (that's a problem I can't help you with), you might find use in task-based parallelism (part 3 and on), as it takes care of the interdependencies for you and thus mutexes should never be needed (well, they shouldn't be in the standard "parallellise loops calling same functions on same object types" approach either), as it guarantees a function is not processed until the functions it depends on are.
And it has a certain elegance that should appeal to you too :ghost:
Warning: do not ask about physics unless you really want to know about physics.
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Re: Tuesday, January 31, 2017

#65
Grumblesaur wrote:GVim, specifically. Plaintext editors are nice because they don't take an age to load.
But they also just present you just a wall of code-text with syntax highlighting.
The question is: how much time do you save when starting the editor, and how much time you loose in jumping through the code to find a reference for example.

I dont see the advantage of a slim editor when you have to handle a really large codebase.
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Re: Tuesday, January 31, 2017

#69
Damocles wrote:
Grumblesaur wrote:GVim, specifically. Plaintext editors are nice because they don't take an age to load.
But they also just present you just a wall of code-text with syntax highlighting.
The question is: how much time do you save when starting the editor, and how much time you loose in jumping through the code to find a reference for example.

I dont see the advantage of a slim editor when you have to handle a really large codebase.
When you typed that message, how much time did you lose because you didn't have predictive text, spell checker, grammar checker, sentence refactoring, verb highlighting, etc.?
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Re: Tuesday, January 31, 2017

#70
Ringu wrote: When you typed that message, how much time did you lose because you didn't have predictive text, spell checker, grammar checker, sentence refactoring, verb highlighting, etc.?
Congrats, I'm fairly sure that's the worst simile I've seen this week. Unless your coding projects tend to be 2 lines and take 30 seconds to write :ghost:
Warning: do not ask about physics unless you really want to know about physics.
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Re: Tuesday, January 31, 2017

#71
Ringu wrote:
Damocles wrote:
Grumblesaur wrote:GVim, specifically. Plaintext editors are nice because they don't take an age to load.
But they also just present you just a wall of code-text with syntax highlighting.
The question is: how much time do you save when starting the editor, and how much time you loose in jumping through the code to find a reference for example.

I dont see the advantage of a slim editor when you have to handle a really large codebase.
When you typed that message, how much time did you lose because you didn't have predictive text, spell checker, grammar checker, sentence refactoring, verb highlighting, etc.?
Given that this is a commentary text, that does not have to be parsed by a computer, none.

Have a spelling error in code, then the time it takes between starting the application, to recognizing the error and fixing it.
And that can add up substencially when either the build time is long, or the error only appears when running the method as in interpreted text (like JS).
Whereas an IDE would immediately mark the code-point with a notification.

Bugs if they appear should be "propper" bugs, such as not handeling a nullpointer or wrongly addressing an array etc..
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Re: Tuesday, January 31, 2017

#72
Dinosawer wrote:
Ringu wrote: When you typed that message, how much time did you lose because you didn't have predictive text, spell checker, grammar checker, sentence refactoring, verb highlighting, etc.?
Congrats, I'm fairly sure that's the worst simile I've seen this week. Unless your coding projects tend to be 2 lines and take 30 seconds to write :ghost:
:P I think the underlying point is accurate. Many developers use plain text editors for even large-scale projects, because there are times when IDEs get in the way, or you can't find one that suits you or your workflow, or there's just no need.

Hell, I do it all the time still - notepad on a Windows machine or vi on most anything else is incredibly useful for being a fast way to get to your code. If you know your code reasonably well it can be far quicker than opening an IDE, waiting for it to load all its' modules (Eclipse, anyone?) and then navigating through its' own system to get to your file, method, or line.
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Re: Tuesday, January 31, 2017

#73
For small and medium projects you completely made yourself, sure. For a large codebase being developed by 10 people that has been being worked on for decades, nooooooppppeee. :P
The added functionality (syntax checking + inheritance graphs + jump to definition+autocomplete etc) more than saves the full minute it might take for eclipse or VS or Pycharm to load.
Warning: do not ask about physics unless you really want to know about physics.
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Re: Tuesday, January 31, 2017

#74
Damocles wrote:Given that this is a commentary text, that does not have to be parsed by a computer, none.

Have a spelling error in code, then the time it takes between starting the application, to recognizing the error and fixing it.
And that can add up substencially when either the build time is long, or the error only appears when running the method as in interpreted text (like JS).
Whereas an IDE would immediately mark the code-point with a notification.

Bugs if they appear should be "propper" bugs, such as not handeling a nullpointer or wrongly addressing an array etc..
I reject this post completely, on the grounds that it has lots of bugs (in terms of spelling and grammar). :P

BST, I had a serious point there - you didn't choose to use a word processor to type your message, when it has lots of facilities to help correct what you type, and as a result, you ended up with a post that has lots of spelling and grammatical errors.
Whereas when I post, I use a plain editor and I rarely have spelling errors.

It's simply a different choice that developers make, in the same way that you made the choice. You probably knew that you'd have some errors in your output, whereas I knew I'd only have a rare problem, and I'd spot it before posting usually. On the rarest occasion when my spelling errors get posted, it usually gets picked up quickly enough that it doesn't really justify my trying to load MS Word every time I want to post.
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Re: Tuesday, January 31, 2017

#75
Dinosawer wrote:For small and medium projects you completely made yourself, sure. For a large codebase being developed by 10 people that has been being worked on for decades, nooooooppppeee. :P
The added functionality (syntax checking + inheritance graphs + jump to definition+autocomplete etc) more than saves the full minute it might take for eclipse or VS or Pycharm to load.
I beg to differ, really: when I worked on Windows, the vast majority of devs used notepad equivalents, even though Visual Studio existed (well, the internal predecessor, anyway). When I worked on writing the Floating Point CPU emulation, I only ever used vi and that was as complicated as code gets, believe me.

Currently, I am 99% of the time forced to use Xcode as it's the only real way to build iOS apps, but whenever I switch to server-based work, I'll use vi or a text editor rather than anything more complicated.

I don't think it suits everyone, but certainly some of us older hackers who didn't have IDEs tend to do this more than others. I think it's another case of an old skill being lost.
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