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Re: REKT: God Throws Dice (Main Thread)

#2791
Cornflakes_91 wrote:
Hapchazzard wrote:Excited to see this rebooting. Can't wait to try out the PSI/Exotics-heavy build I've been planning... I'm surprised it was so underused(read: not used at all) in GTD, considering that it looks just as good as conventional and unconventional.
We all chose our skills before tal gave us the cool psi equipment
Oh yes, now I remember. Well, glad to see it fleshed out now.
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Re: REKT: God Throws Dice (Main Thread)

#2793
Really? Half or more of the applicants are wanting to be exotic? That's... not good. If half of everybody goes with exotic weaponry, then most of them will be pretty bored a lot of the time because there won't be anything for them to do that one of their teammates can't do. Naturally, I'd want to keep that from happening. That's part of what the auditions are for.

To counter this, exotics will probably receive a nerf. That many people wanting it is a good sign that there's some imbalance there.
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Re: REKT: God Throws Dice (Main Thread)

#2794
Talvieno wrote: To counter this, exotics will probably receive a nerf. That many people wanting it is a good sign that there's some imbalance there.
No it isn't :P
Because a) nobody used it yet, how can it be unbalanced?
b) People want to use it because it's something new and different from what they did before, not because it's OP.
c) It's not like everyone is going pure PSI-combat or something - I was just talking about what people were picking as main combat stat. There is, luckily, more depth to your char sheet system than that :ghost:
(I'm going for PSI/unconv combat, Corn wants PSI/handiwork, outlander I think too, Cha0zz has a psi hacker but I don't know if that's what he'll use)
d) You didn't have a problem with everyone having (mostly) conv and (some) unconv and no psi as combat stat either before - why would it bother you now if it's (mostly) exotic and (some) conv and unconv?
e) Maybe wait with panicking and nerfing until people have actually posted their char sheets? :P Cause 4 or even 5 out of 10 people with PSI as combat stat is no more (even less) than we had percentage of people with conventional in GTD
Last edited by Dinosawer on Sat Mar 18, 2017 9:48 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: REKT: God Throws Dice (Main Thread)

#2796
PSI is a lot more specialized than either unconventional or conventional, which lends it less to being used with other things. It's also considerably harder to "define" in terms of ability and power, so is likely to cause me more problems down the line. Everybody going PSI makes the game rather boring. At least in GTD we had hackers, field manipulation users, pure guns, guns/melee, melee characters, melee/field manipulation, handiwork, etc. Conventional is sort of a cheap "Here's a basic weapon" skill. If you just get conventional, you're fine with plasma infantry weapons. Exotics, on the other hand, uses two skills (optimally three), putting it on the same level of specialization as field manipulators (or, actually, more specialized than even that). I'm about as alarmed as I would be if everyone had chosen, say, heavy conventional infantry, or advanced field manipulators.

As to everyone wanting to try something new, a hacking character would also be new for you (just to give an example), so I don't think that quite covers it.

We'll see though. I want skills to be at least somewhat spread out, so there's a decent variety of stuff going on. I'll do what I have to in order to facilitate that. Right now almost everyone that is sure about what they want wants exotics? To me, that throws all sorts of alarm bells. :P


bottom line: To be fun, REKT needs more variety than "Everybody specializes in the same thing", and there's not much I can do to get around that.
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Re: REKT: God Throws Dice (Main Thread)

#2797
Talvieno wrote:PSI is a lot more specialized than either unconventional or conventional, which lends it less to being used with other things. It's also considerably harder to "define" in terms of ability and power, so is likely to cause me more problems down the line. Everybody going PSI makes the game rather boring. At least in GTD we had hackers, field manipulation users, pure guns, guns/melee, melee characters, melee/field manipulation, handiwork, etc. Conventional is sort of a cheap "Here's a basic weapon" skill. If you just get conventional, you're fine with plasma infantry weapons. Exotics, on the other hand, uses two skills (optimally three), putting it on the same level of specialization as field manipulators (or, actually, more specialized than even that). I'm about as alarmed as I would be if everyone had chosen, say, heavy conventional infantry, or advanced field manipulators.

As to everyone wanting to try something new, a hacking character would also be new for you (just to give an example), so I don't think that quite covers it.

We'll see though. I want skills to be at least somewhat spread out, so there's a decent variety of stuff going on. I'll do what I have to in order to facilitate that. Right now almost everyone that is sure about what they want wants exotics? To me, that throws all sorts of alarm bells. :P


bottom line: To be fun, REKT needs more variety than "Everybody specializes in the same thing", and there's not much I can do to get around that.
TBH, the main reason why I wanted exotics is because I (wrongly) thought that it is going to be rarely-used like in GTD, so I wanted to fill in that spot. As far as I'm concerned, I'd have no problems with taking unconventional(plus maybe hacking) again, as I've had great amounts of fun with the build back in GTD as well. My only question is: will my chances of getting into BTE be decreased for 'lack of originality', so to say(since I'm basically just taking my old build with different secondary skills and a different character)?
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Re: REKT: God Throws Dice (Main Thread)

#2798
No, of course not. :) "Originality" won't factor into it at all. Someone could even use essentially the same stats and skills as your previous character, if that's what they liked and felt comfortable with. I'm just trying to make sure the game will feel well-rounded. It's less of a concern with 30 people than it is with 10, unfortunately, because spread out over 30 people it's a lot easier for there to be someone to cover everything.

Edit: as a further example, every possible "route" you can take to finish a mission is an "option". These options range from the extreme, with "blow up everything with nukes", to the mixed "sneak in, set traps, shoot anyone that doesn't get killed by the traps". Exotics as a skill is specialized - if you choose Exotics, it's difficult to put many points into much besides that. With conventional, it's quite easy to just have one point in conventional so you can at least shoot guns, and the rest in hacking. Exotics narrows down the potential you have for options. In small numbers, an exotics user can have a positive impact on the group's options as a whole, because now they're capable of many tactics they weren't before. However, en masse, almost all options are removed completely, as it's difficult to specialize in both exotics and something else. Your option becomes: exotic the hell out of it, and possibly do one other thing if it happens to be weak to it, because nobody really had the points to spend anywhere else".

It makes designing missions incredibly dull for me, and playing them incredibly dull for you guys. It'd be on the same level as if everyone had chosen chainguns. How am I supposed to make a fun mission out of that, let alone ten? :P
Last edited by Talvieno on Sat Mar 18, 2017 10:27 am, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: REKT: God Throws Dice (Main Thread)

#2799
Talvieno wrote:No, of course not. :) "Originality" won't factor into it at all. Someone could even use essentially the same stats and skills as your previous character, if that's what they liked and felt comfortable with. I'm just trying to make sure the game will feel well-rounded. It's less of a concern with 30 people than it is with 10, unfortunately, because spread out over 30 people it's a lot easier for there to be someone to cover everything.
Alright, thanks for the info!
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Re: REKT: God Throws Dice (Main Thread)

#2800
Talvieno wrote: Everybody going PSI makes the game rather boring. At least in GTD we had hackers, field manipulation users, pure guns, guns/melee, melee characters, melee/field manipulation, handiwork, etc.
Dinosawer wrote: c) It's not like everyone is going pure PSI-combat or something - I was just talking about what people were picking as main combat stat. There is, luckily, more depth to your char sheet system than that :ghost:
(I'm going for PSI/unconv/hacking, Corn wants PSI/handiwork, outlander I think too, Cha0zz has a psi hacker but I don't know if that's what he'll use)
Talvieno wrote: Conventional is sort of a cheap "Here's a basic weapon" skill. If you just get conventional, you're fine with plasma infantry weapons. Exotics, on the other hand, uses two skills (optimally three), putting it on the same level of specialization as field manipulators (or, actually, more specialized than even that).
Conventional uses 2 skills (possibly one, but that is suboptimal)
Unconventional uses 2 skills, with an option to specialise to a third via robotics, computer or energy
Exotic uses 2 skills

What's the difference?
Talvieno wrote: I'm about as alarmed as I would be if everyone had chosen, say, heavy conventional infantry, or advanced field manipulators.
Pretty sure more than half of us had energy+conventional, and that was fine :ghost:

Talvieno wrote: As to everyone wanting to try something new, a hacking character would also be new for you (just to give an example), so I don't think that quite covers it.
I am at level 2, but I mean PSI was introduced (for real) after we made our chars. Hacking was already in and we had a fair share of those
Talvieno wrote:Right now almost everyone that is sure about what they want wants exotics? To me, that throws all sorts of alarm bells. :P
No, just 2-4 of us old-timers since mission 1, not everyone :P

Talvieno wrote:bottom line: To be fun, REKT needs more variety than "Everybody specializes in the same thing", and there's not much I can do to get around that.
People take the same basic combat skill is not the same as specialising in the same thing
Talvieno wrote:Exotics as a skill is specialized - if you choose Exotics, it's difficult to put many points into much besides that. With conventional, it's quite easy to just have one point in conventional so you can at least shoot guns, and the rest in hacking. Exotics narrows down the potential you have for options. [...] as it's difficult to specialize in both exotics and something else. Your option becomes: exotic the hell out of it, and possibly do one other thing if it happens to be weak to it, because nobody really had the points to spend anywhere else".
Not true, see above

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Re: REKT: God Throws Dice (Main Thread)

#2801
Exotics is more specialized. To use it well, you need psionics, energy, and exotics. Don't forget that the PSI pack costs two infantry slots, which means if you want to hold anything else at all (including exotic weaponry), you'll want to put some points into energy to bring it to at least 0. 0 by itself is fairly useless - you'll probably want to upgrade that more too. Your points would largely be going into exotics, energy, and psionics.

I don't want to run a campaign where everyone is specialized in exactly the same thing. That would be boring for me, and without many options or ideas of what to give you to work with, I think it'd be boring for you too because I wouldn't know how to make it interesting or varied. If that's what I'm faced with, I'll just rethink reopening REKT. At least I haven't posted a new thread or something to make it official. :|

Orrrr I could nerf it slightly to encourage people to choose other things.
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Re: REKT: God Throws Dice (Main Thread)

#2803
Talvieno wrote:Exotics is more specialized. To use it well, you need psionics, energy, and exotics. Don't forget that the PSI pack costs two infantry slots, which means if you want to hold anything else at all (including exotic weaponry), you'll want to put some points into energy to bring it to at least 0. 0 by itself is fairly useless - you'll probably want to upgrade that more too. Your points would largely be going into exotics, energy, and psionics.
Eh?
You don't need energy, your amount of PSI amps you can use depends on PSI. In fact, my build is never gonna see energy above 0 and I still can have 4 weapons (3 amps + 1 handheld) with 2 PSI :P
In fact, you could even make a pure PSI char with -2 energy and be fine as well.
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