Page 1 of 1

Mod support pitfalls

Posted: Thu Feb 15, 2018 5:41 pm
by Talvieno
Now that Josh and Adam are really getting into the whole "making gameplay as mods" things...

What are some games you've played that had terrible mod support, when they were supposed to be easily moddable? Also, what about them made the mod support so terrible?

I was asked this question recently, and I thought I might pose it to you guys as well.

Re: Mod support pitfalls

Posted: Thu Feb 15, 2018 7:26 pm
by Silverware
Well... The Elder Scrolls/Bethesda Fallout strikes me that way.
As does Freelancer.

The support for modding in these areas is minimal, even though the games are capable of it, and even have tools in Bethesda's case.
But the fact that people have to install a third party executable to get enough out of the game to be able to do much of the more interesting cases for modding with Bethesda is just ridiculous, especially as the Script Extenders have been around since Oblivion, and Bethesda STILL haven't incorporated the code.

Freelancer was mostly just a mess, even though you could fairly easily add things with single text files, it was a VERY bad implementation, and I really question how they built the game in the first place.

Re: Mod support pitfalls

Posted: Thu Feb 15, 2018 7:32 pm
by Talvieno
Really? I always thought Skyrim was a good example of "modding done right", given how many thousands of mods they have, and how easy it is to install them. Yes, you have to use third-party software, but that software is fairly readily available and doesn't actually do anything you couldn't do entirely by yourself. ...well, apart from cleaning the game's main files. :D That's a bit of bad design, somewhere there.

I also know that my brother, Zora, has made a number of skyrim mods without any real difficulty. It's the only thing he's managed to mod. He has no coding skills whatsoever. :D

Re: Mod support pitfalls

Posted: Thu Feb 15, 2018 7:43 pm
by Silverware
You are talking support, since when has Bethesda actually supported the community with modding? :V
Their tools are ancient, though they may be what they internally use, and if that's the case, I really, really feel sorry for their people.

But more than anything, they are unwilling to make things easier, they have X tools, and they ALWAYS have X tools, and have had such since Morrowind.
The only improvement is the addition of Steam Workshop with Skyrim, which they removed with Fallout 4.

So the one improvement they made their their modding support in the last 15 years or so, is one they also removed immediately afterwards.

Just because the tools might be okay, doesn't mean there is modding support.

Paradox for instance actually post examples, implement new systems that get used ONLY by mods, and check in with their modding teams to see what they are doing, so they can implement ideas themselves in a way that makes it easier for modders.
THAT is support.

Re: Mod support pitfalls

Posted: Thu Feb 15, 2018 7:45 pm
by Talvieno
Fair points, Silver. I see what you're saying now, and agree. Bethesda should've made their own version of the Nexus Mod Manager and included it with the game, and that would've been "true" support. Including tools is important.

Re: Mod support pitfalls

Posted: Fri Feb 16, 2018 3:14 am
by vector67
I don't know if this is quite the right place, but something I would really like to see would be a walkthrough of each of the developers' setups for writing LUA code. This would help people who have absolutely no clue to get to the point where they actually start doing something substantial. Of course you don't need <Insert editor of choice here> to do LT coding, the dev team picked what they use and how they use it with purpose, and it would be nice to see a bit of insight into that.