The Extent of Moddability in Limit Theory

The S&M crowd is getting naughty with the game files.

Re: The Extent of Moddability in Limit Theory

Postby Flatfingers » Sat Jan 10, 2015 8:00 pm

Surface Reflection wrote:Didnt know about crew templates but thats all about as i expected. Nah, it doesnt help for my crazy idea. I literally need both full human characters and ships full of stats, almost like characters onto themselves. Tnx anyway.

No problem.

Actually, while I'm OK that it's not part of Limit Theory, I also have wanted the kind of game you briefly describe.

I put a fair amount of time into some design suggestions for what finally became Star Trek Online. In one of those, Starship Operations in a Star Trek MMORPG, I spelled out in the Introduction why I thought it was important for a MMORPG based on Star Trek to render characters as characters, and ships as characters, and let them interact with each other in interesting ways.

It didn't work out that way. :( But the idea stands. I'd still like to see that game made by someone someday.
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Re: The Extent of Moddability in Limit Theory

Postby Surface Reflection » Sat Jan 10, 2015 10:41 pm

Unfortunately i know too little about MMORPGS or Star Trek games so i cannot properly judge those articles, and i had something entirely different in mind.


Ever heard about a ship called Prosthetic Conscience ? How about No More Mr Nice Guy ? Honest Mistake? Ethics Gradient ? So Much For Subtlety? or one of my favorites... Frank Exchange Of Views?
Now, those are some ships, let me tell you. What a bunch of characters :lol:

Hey... hmm... HMMMM! Ca - chiiingg!
Now that would be a LT mod i could see... If nothing else then as a small homage and in memoriam, sadly.
Last edited by Surface Reflection on Sun Jan 11, 2015 2:21 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: The Extent of Moddability in Limit Theory

Postby Grumblesaur » Mon Jan 12, 2015 6:12 pm

Surface Reflection wrote:Ever heard about a ship called Prosthetic Conscience ? How about No More Mr Nice Guy ? Honest Mistake? Ethics Gradient ? So Much For Subtlety? or one of my favorites... Frank Exchange Of Views?


A fan of The Culture, I see.
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Re: The Extent of Moddability in Limit Theory

Postby Scytale » Mon Jan 12, 2015 6:19 pm

Grumblesaur wrote:
Surface Reflection wrote:Ever heard about a ship called Prosthetic Conscience ? How about No More Mr Nice Guy ? Honest Mistake? Ethics Gradient ? So Much For Subtlety? or one of my favorites... Frank Exchange Of Views?


A fan of The Culture, I see.


Exactly this observation led to a previous glorious off-topic thread split!
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Re: The Extent of Moddability in Limit Theory

Postby Grumblesaur » Mon Jan 12, 2015 6:31 pm

Scytale wrote:
Grumblesaur wrote:
Surface Reflection wrote:Ever heard about a ship called Prosthetic Conscience ? How about No More Mr Nice Guy ? Honest Mistake? Ethics Gradient ? So Much For Subtlety? or one of my favorites... Frank Exchange Of Views?


A fan of The Culture, I see.


Exactly this observation led to a previous glorious off-topic thread split!


Oh.

I've got some catching up to do, it seems.
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Re: The Extent of Moddability in Limit Theory

Postby Scytale » Mon Jan 12, 2015 6:45 pm

Relevant thread, from the second post.
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Re: The Extent of Moddability in Limit Theory

Postby Surface Reflection » Tue Jan 13, 2015 8:57 pm

Flatfingers wrote:I put a fair amount of time into some design suggestions for what finally became Star Trek Online. In one of those, Starship Operations in a Star Trek MMORPG, I spelled out in the Introduction why I thought it was important for a MMORPG based on Star Trek to render characters as characters, and ships as characters, and let them interact with each other in interesting ways.

It didn't work out that way. :( But the idea stands. I'd still like to see that game made by someone someday.


Ive gone and read more of your proposal and ideas. And yes, indeed its nothing like what i was thinking about. Besides, you really need to Culture yourself and then youll meet some ships characters indeed.
You dont need to worry, or listen to those idirans and their dirty propaganda. Im from Contact, ive done this plenty of times. We could give you some nice glands that will make everything better you know?
and thats just the start.


Also,
An important second reason for giving starships some serious depth is that many of those who'll be drawn to a game like ST:O will, I think, be the kind of people who find complex systems more interesting (read: more fun) than trivially simple objects.

Baaaaad idea.

This is why it didnt work, although it was really a good try and would be a great thing to see in such or similar games. Its a mass market audience. Of course they want things to be as simple as possible, streamlined into singularity of good taste and quality.
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Re: The Extent of Moddability in Limit Theory

Postby Flatfingers » Tue Jan 13, 2015 9:33 pm

Surface Reflection wrote:
Flatfingers wrote:An important second reason for giving starships some serious depth is that many of those who'll be drawn to a game like ST:O will, I think, be the kind of people who find complex systems more interesting (read: more fun) than trivially simple objects.

Baaaaad idea.

This is why it didnt work, although it was really a good try and would be a great thing to see in such or similar games. Its a mass market audience. Of course they want things to be as simple as possible, streamlined into singularity of good taste and quality.

I think you may be confusing depth with complexity.

We've also seen what happens when developers aim low. Baaaaad idea.

I do understand what you mean; I've commented on mass market gameplay tastes myself. They aren't wrong, but they are about clarity in knowing what one is "supposed" to do and exactly how to get it done as quickly as possible. It does take thoughtful design to support that style of play as well as deeper play for those looking for gameplay that's less about excitement or achievement and more about exploration. But I think it can be done, and my notes in the link above were a first step in that direction.

I also think the Star Trek franchise in particular needed that depth. And I was disappointed, but not surprised, when Cryptic revealed that STO was pretty much a reskin of Champions Online. That was presumably to kick it out the door in just two years, but it caused STO not to have much more than a surface rendering of what Star Trek IMO is actually about.

Whether that simplicity has made STO as successful as it might have been is an open question.
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Re: The Extent of Moddability in Limit Theory

Postby Surface Reflection » Tue Jan 13, 2015 11:28 pm

Of course it didnt.
There is elegant simplicity that has a purpose, and is presented in smart ways and then there is just mass market dumbing down.
Im not confusing anything, but a lot of companies like that do.
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