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Re: H-Tech

#46
outlander4 wrote:This thread is dangerous as it might quickly degrade into discussing personalities...

... Of course, H-tech is just better than everything but I'd honestly refrain from comparing two or more types of handwavium; it's just as silly as comparing hyperspace from Star Wars to hyperdrive (? I think so) of Star Trek and arguing which one is better.
...
All being said, I must declare that despite being an avid supporter of non-H-tech club I have great personal respect for Thymine, his ideas and his manner of expressing his thoughts. It's just that we had a little bit too much of H-tech everywhere (am I not a master of understatement?), and reaction may be pretty violent. Newton's Third law, sociological application, or Welcome to Real Life: try to get out at soon as you can, folks.
Star Wars uses Hyper-drive which is a extra dimension in the Star Wars universe that allows ships to travel through it at a speed much faster than light. Hyper-drives range in speeds depending on the "engine" installed. Star Trek uses Warp drive which warps the fabric of space-time and allows the ship to get to its location faster than light while the bubble it is in does not move. Warp drives are being researched in real life.
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Re: H-Tech

#47
BFett wrote: Star Wars uses Hyper-drive which is a extra dimension in the Star Wars universe that allows ships to travel through it at a speed much faster than light. Hyper-drives range in speeds depending on the "engine" installed. Star Trek uses Warp drive which warps the fabric of space-time and allows the ship to get to its location faster than light while the bubble it is in does not move. Warp drives are being researched in real life.
Actually, I know. Just wasn't sure it was called 'hyperdrive' in ST. Memory failures, ye know?
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Survivor of the Josh Parnell Blackout of 2015.
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Re: H-Tech

#48
outlander4 wrote:
BFett wrote: Star Wars uses Hyper-drive which is a extra dimension in the Star Wars universe that allows ships to travel through it at a speed much faster than light. Hyper-drives range in speeds depending on the "engine" installed. Star Trek uses Warp drive which warps the fabric of space-time and allows the ship to get to its location faster than light while the bubble it is in does not move. Warp drives are being researched in real life.
Actually, I know. Just wasn't sure it was called 'hyperdrive' in ST. Memory failures, ye know?
No problem, star wars uses lots of different tech then star trek but some of the naming conventions are messed up.

For instance, all of the ship and station weapons seen in star wars are plasma based even though they are called turbo lasers and laser cannons.
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Re: H-Tech

#49
I'm personally not a fan of H-tech because the physics sits wrong with my understanding of Thermodynamics, Relativity, Special Relativity and Quantumn Dynamics.

I'm happy to accept that the physics in the LT universe is ~wrong~, but trying to justify top speeds when there is so much that needs justifying is insufficient.

Unless Thymine has ideas for:

What makes H-tech possible in LT space
Why there is no gravity
How planets/stars/systems formed without gravity
Why space is so dusty
Why there are asteroids everywhere
Why my characters never have legs in first person view

(some day I will learn how to make a fancy list)

Focusing on just the max speed aspect isn't enough, particularly if you're trying to make it make sense in our universe's physics. There is simply too much wrong with LT's physics engine to make it fit nicely
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Re: H-Tech

#50
Sasha wrote:What makes H-tech possible in LT space
The same things as makes it work in our universe. I don't see how this goes against any currently established laws.
Sasha wrote:Why there is no gravity
There is gravity even if the game doesn't simulate it - you can just assume that ships and stations use weak H-fields to counter gravitational attraction, as explained in other threads.
Sasha wrote:How planets/stars/systems formed without gravity
See above.
Sasha wrote:Why space is so dusty
With realistically-sized systems, you'd have dusty regions around points of interest but the vast majority of space will be empty, I believe.
Sasha wrote:Why there are asteroids everywhere
I'm fairly sure this is something Josh said he was going to change eventually. I mean I don't expect asteroids to be literally everywhere in all systems, and from the footage I've seen of Freelancer this wasn't the case there either.
Sasha wrote:Why my characters never have legs in first person view
Um, what? We don't even know what species the player is, if they're even organic at all. I prefer to think of the player as a sentient computer program.
Sasha wrote:Focusing on just the max speed aspect isn't enough, particularly if you're trying to make it make sense in our universe's physics. There is simply too much wrong with LT's physics engine to make it fit nicely
Yes, which is why I'm very much focused on making everything else make sense.
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Re: H-Tech

#51
ThymineC wrote:Sasha wrote:
What makes H-tech possible in LT space

The same things as makes it work in our universe. I don't see how this goes against any currently established laws.
But that is just it. It doesn't. It is just as realistic to just have different physics in LT with drag in space because of dust.
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Re: H-Tech

#52
Neandertal wrote:
ThymineC wrote:Sasha wrote:
What makes H-tech possible in LT space

The same things as makes it work in our universe. I don't see how this goes against any currently established laws.
But that is just it. It doesn't. It is just as realistic to just have different physics in LT with drag in space because of dust.
Which laws of physics does it explicitly contradict?
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Re: H-Tech

#53
Relativity: All measurements are relative to some inertial reference frame.

Special Relativity: Information NEVER travels faster than light

Thermodynamics: There's no such thing as a free lunch

Quantumn Dynamics: There is SO much to go into here, but I can't fight H-tech.
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Re: H-Tech

#54
Nah-nah Thymine, gravity is something you see veeeeryyyy clearly when travelling in space. Even in Kerbal Space Program with its reduced distances (the whole system can fit inside Earth's orbit) planets will graciously run away from you if you messed up your trajectory even a little bit. You don't just travel along straight lines in space. Even with gravity-independent/compensated movement, you'll have either to chase planets (thus moving in arcs) or predict their movement and intercept them. Not to mention that trade lanes wouldn't be possible at all. Physics. Deal with it.

Almost completely off-topic:
Spoiler:      SHOW
Just remembered this little piece of KSP editing: http://youtu.be/7LAI5giiPIk
That's how stuff moves on a small scale :)
Edit: bottom line: you can pretend there's gravity in LT, but why then you don't pretend it's H-tech all along? I personally will just play a game without even a touch of realism if it's that damn good.
Last edited by outlander on Mon Mar 17, 2014 1:28 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Survivor of the Josh Parnell Blackout of 2015.
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Re: H-Tech

#55
Sasha wrote:Relativity: All measurements are relative to some inertial reference frame.
well, we have to abandon this because of game engine, otherwise we could measure in relation to the next star, planet, whatever
Sasha wrote: Special Relativity: Information NEVER travels faster than light
yeah, there is no known way around
maaybe its possible via quantum entanglement communication
abusing entanglement with some this applied in reverse
Sasha wrote: Thermodynamics: There's no such thing as a free lunch
there is afaik nothing explicitly preventing quantum vacuum fluctuations from being used as energy source
iirc its even researched semi-actively
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Re: H-Tech

#56
outlander4 wrote:Nah-nah Thymine, gravity is something you see veeeeryyyy clearly when travelling in space. Even in Kerbal Space Program with its reduced distances (the whole system can fit inside Earth's orbit) planets will graciously run away from you if you messed up your trajectory even a little bit. You don't just travel along straight lines in space. Even with gravity-independent/compensated movement, you'll have either to chase planets (thus moving in arcs) or predict their movement and intercept them. Not to mention that trade lanes wouldn't be possible at all. Physics. Deal with it.

Almost completely off-topic:
Spoiler:      SHOW
Just remembered this little piece of KSP editing: http://youtu.be/7LAI5giiPIk
That's how stuff moves on a small scale :)
as we are travelling in FTL speeds around systems with the H-Drive we can safely assume that orbital movement is simply too slow to be seen
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Re: H-Tech

#57
Sasha wrote:Relativity: All measurements are relative to some inertial reference frame.
In this regard, the H-drive is like the Alcubierre drive, isn't it? Since you're not moving, you use the same frame of reference as if you're at rest.
Sasha wrote:Special Relativity: Information NEVER travels faster than light
Since wormholes are already in the game, there must necessarily already be some way for information to travel faster than light. Therefore Einstein must have been wrong.
Sasha wrote:Thermodynamics: There's no such thing as a free lunch
Why is it a free lunch? You're not getting more energy out than you're putting in.
Sasha wrote:Quantumn Dynamics: There is SO much to go into here, but I can't fight H-tech.
Well, okay. I can't argue against non-specifics.
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Re: H-Tech

#58
outlander4 wrote:Nah-nah Thymine, gravity is something you see veeeeryyyy clearly when travelling in space. Even in Kerbal Space Program with its reduced distances (the whole system can fit inside Earth's orbit) planets will graciously run away from you if you messed up your trajectory even a little bit. You don't just travel along straight lines in space. Even with gravity-independent/compensated movement, you'll have either to chase planets (thus moving in arcs) or predict their movement and intercept them. Not to mention that trade lanes wouldn't be possible at all. Physics. Deal with it.
Trade lanes would be entirely possible with orbital dynamics, as I've explained a few times in other threads. Also, there's no kind of background to space to judge the motion of planets against, so it wouldn't bother me if they were actually static. EVE Online had static planets and it didn't ruin my sense of immersion.
outlander4 wrote:Edit: bottom line: you can pretend there's gravity in LT, but why then you don't pretend it's H-tech all along? I personally will just play a game without even a touch of realism if it's that damn good.
I can't pretend it's H-tech all along if ships have reaction thrusters. It's a lot easier for me to pretend there's gravity even if planets don't appear to move.
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Re: H-Tech

#60
ThymineC wrote: Since wormholes are already in the game, there must necessarily already be some way for information to travel faster than light. Therefore Einstein must have been wrong.
Wormholes do not actually allow ftl travel, they only provide a shorter route (shortcut) trough space, by using a wormhole you cross a shorter distance between two points than you would've if you didn't cross it.
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