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How should death be handled in LT?

Permanent Death
Total votes: 10 (5%)
Limited Respawn
Total votes: 18 (10%)
Unlimited Respawn
Total votes: 18 (10%)
Save/Load
Total votes: 66 (35%)
All of the above
Total votes: 70 (37%)
Custom idea
Total votes: 7 (4%)
Total votes: 189
Post

Re: Death in LT

#2
The using of clones is the key. And their should have a very limited use. Maybe they're very expensive or something. It's like this:

-If you die early in your game, you probably can't afford a clone, but it is still just that: early in the game.
-Later you'll bring hundreds of hours of gaming to your account and it could be a shame to see all that hard work lost because of, maybe, just a little error (or not). Point is: later in your game, you could afford a clone (a very very expensive clone) and save your efforts.

Permadeath with restoration policy for veteran games.
I have been - and always shall be - your friend.
Post

Re: Death in LT

#3
Lum wrote:The using of clones is the key. And their should have a very limited use. Maybe they're very expensive or something. It's like this:

-If you die early in your game, you probably can't afford a clone, but it is still just that: early in the game.
-Later you'll bring hundreds of hours of gaming to your account and it could be a shame to see all that hard work lost because of, maybe, just a little error (or not). Point is: later in your game, you could afford a clone (a very very expensive clone) and save your efforts.

Permadeath with restoration policy for veteran games.
Why not adapt to do what EVE Online does: you can always afford a clone/recompilation, but the default is pretty crappy so that if you die, you get penalised more significantly in some way than if you choose to upgrade to a better clone/recompilation process. I've discussed this with Josh as well.
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Re: Death in LT

#5
Lum wrote:Yeah, that is a good system, but on the other hand, EVE doesn't have a save game system...
Yeah, but as I've been saying in other threads, the player shouldn't be forced to rely on reloading to carry on their game, since that damages immersion. Instead, there should be some immersive in-game means for allowing the player to continue playing after death. In addition, doing it through this means allows for the player to get punished appropriately for dying, something that wouldn't happen with a reload.

It's basically a similar argument to the ones used to argue for the legalisation of weed.
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Re: Death in LT

#6
It really could be an option in the starting conditions for your game:

Saving Game System? Yes / Yes [immersive] / No [hardcore]

The first option is with normal saved games (there maybe we could have auto or manual or both), the second could be your option with clones (that is, in and out of game are normal savings, but death and reload goes only with your /EVEs clone system). The third option es pretty obvious :problem:
I have been - and always shall be - your friend.
Post

Re: Death in LT

#7
Lum wrote:It really could be an option in the starting conditions for your game:

Saving Game System? Yes / Yes [immersive] / No [hardcore]

The first option is with normal saved games (there maybe we could have auto or manual or both), the second could be your option with clones (that is, in and out of game are normal savings, but death and reload goes only with your /EVEs clone system). The third option es pretty obvious :problem:
Yeah, you could do that. You can make everyone happy if you include enough options in the start menu. ;)

Damn, that should be a law or something: "You can satisfy every kind of player given enough options in the start menu."
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Re: Death in LT

#8
Maybe we could have a hybrid system where you don't have to worry about death if you just want to dog fight some AI. Consider going into a massive battle with 100 ships on each side and the majority of them are fighters and bombers and a carrier and battleship per side. If the player start fighting it out in one of the small fighters and the player dies the player may not want to be penalized for it by ending the game or costing their self a clone. I suggest limited re-spawn on a per flight group level for small craft being launched into the battle.

This allows for the player to participate in dogfights without having to worry about dying. After the battle is over the system could return to what ever was pre-determined.
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Re: Death in LT

#10
Flatfingers wrote:Reload + clone + permadeath seems to cover the bases very nicely.

(Which means I can't vote on this as I don't consider respawning to be an adequate substitute for a proper manual save/reload capability.)
Wouldn't save/reload simply be unlimited respawn since you can reload as many times as you like? Or should I add save/reload to the list?
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Re: Death in LT

#11
BFett wrote:
Flatfingers wrote:Reload + clone + permadeath seems to cover the bases very nicely.

(Which means I can't vote on this as I don't consider respawning to be an adequate substitute for a proper manual save/reload capability.)
Wouldn't save/reload simply be unlimited respawn since you can reload as many times as you like? Or should I add save/reload to the list?
The respawning mechanic shouldn't be related to the save/reload mechanic. The point of respawning is two-fold:
  • To maintain immersion
  • To allow for an adequate in-game form of punishment for dying. This isn't possible with save / reloading.
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Re: Death in LT

#12
Respawning implies re-entering the world in a way that's controlled by the developer -- you return when and where someone else decides you should.

Reloading -- the manual kind, not the checkpoint kind -- puts the gameplay experience more under the player's control. You're back to where you were when you saved, but that's up to you.

While I disagree that reloading is immersion-breaking for everyone, I agree that it can be for some. That's why I support some form of lore-based respawning that fits the overall feel of Limit Theory. I don't know if that's cloning, which feels too derivative of EVE, and I'm still not persuaded that we're all going to be programs or robots. ;) But I'm happy to endorse some kind of respawn system that feels right for LT.
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Re: Death in LT

#13
Flatfingers wrote:Respawning implies re-entering the world in a way that's controlled by the developer -- you return when and where someone else decides you should.

Reloading -- the manual kind, not the checkpoint kind -- puts the gameplay experience more under the player's control. You're back to where you were when you saved, but that's up to you.
No, the player gets to choose where to respawn through an agreement with a company that provides a cloning/recompilation service. In fact, they may get to choose on a variety of other factors as well, such as the quality of the process.
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Re: Death in LT

#14
If I'm recalling correctly, I think Josh's idea was to have a slider that controlled how affordable the cloning/recompilation process is, effectively allowing for anything between infinite (or near infinite) respawns on one end and permadeath on the other.

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