I'm curious about this. Like the fuel thing, repair and maintenance is something that's unlikely to please all the people most of the time. There's a conflict between "this is a reasonable mechanic to more accurately model various economic processes and large-scale strategic concerns" and "this is a dull and grindy mechanic which forces me to to stuff that's not fun."

So, a simple straw poll, a finger in the wind, what do people think about maintenance and upkeep?

[ Or have it a bit more detailed. Poll : Supply, Fuel, and Maintenance, Gazz]

Excellent poll McDuff, very interested as well to know where most people stand on this. Thanks

Can't sign any of those wholesale. These are a lot of all-or-nothing options.

Weapons: Yes, with a simplified supply model instead of managing 9568276 different types of PGC ammunition.
Fuel: Yes, if it refers to "bonus movement" like an afterburner or is an auto-generating resource.
Food/Wages: Impossible to tell without knowing what exactly is implied with the two words you listed.

Detailed supply is micromanagement hell as any X3 player knows.
And if you automate it with "smart AI/NPC" features... why bother in the first place? Just use a simplified model to begin with.

I would add options to the poll but that would reset current votes. =)


For poll options in general, how about making a topic without a poll and refining the question first?
Then make a new topic with the poll. The old one can be locked.
I'd turn on the "can lock own topics" option for this forum...

Well, as I said, finger in the air more than scientific.

For "food/wages/fuel" just assume that to be any category that includes stuff I spend money on as I go along, but which doesn't make my ship actually break if I don't use it.

Wasn't there a discussion about this some time ago?

It's a bloody nuisance to keep track on n ships and either:
a) replace them every y cycles when they get too old or risk bankruptcy.
b) enter micromanagement hell to keep them them fueled and supplied with individually specialized ammo and/or spare parts.

Unless heavily automated, any supply mechanism is likely to massively grate on your nerves as soon as n > 3. (To paraphrase Elan: "Klick, klick, klick that shiny refuel button for every ship in your fleet. Now do it again. And again.").
And as far as age-induced breakdowns and wallet drain goes, I get enough of that crap with my car, I absolutely don't need it in a game. Hell, even fuel for normal operation/movement is pushing it; in an absolute worst case scenario, the ship get stranded, can't move, and faces a particular annoying game over state. And this extends to NPCs as well; if they automagically never forget to refuel, it's merely punishing the player for not pressing the button like the good little rat he is.

Some kind of wage can be discussed, but the whole affair stinks of annoying micromanagement for very little gain in gameplay terms. Not even EVE bothers to annoy its players with that kind of pedantry. And no, their economy has been running pretty stable for nearly 10 years of real-time, with no vertical progression, no item treadmill and no forced obsolescence, why thank you. IMHO this is what we should be aiming for, not dog-eat-dog capitalism according to Enron and Gordon Gekko.

Dude, Eve is all "build Titans, build more Titans, occasionally have a war because there are too many Titans and nothing to do with them."

Complaints about fuel should probably go in the poll thread about fuel.

I am, and have been for a while, with Hardenberg on this one.

There was no "damage repair + fuel" option, so damage repair got the nod.

As I've said elsewhere, I think refueling for bigger ships is important for logistics play. But no way to repair damage would be even less plausible than magical go-forever ships.

Im a bit torn about fuel.
On the one side i'd like to have to outfit expeditions to make meaningful long-range exploration, on the other side i dont want to constantly fiddle around with fuel in early/single ship gamre.

Same with general upkeep/wage.
I see the need for limiting power a bit, in a way that is not induced by interfaces which have outlived their time.
(Although i have an idea how to make wages dynamic and even non-material at times)

but i'd like to have different ammunitions which are interchangeable between guns/launchers inside some boundaries

I selected the "I don't care as long as it can be turned down or off" option, except I DO care!

I would like to see all of Fuel, Food, Wages, Decay, Combat damage, etc as an option at universe generation, so I can decide partly how difficult my universe will be.

This option also gives the best of all options, include every type of maintenance and the option to turn off each one to keep everybody happy

Sasha wrote:I selected the "I don't care as long as it can be turned down or off" option, except I DO care!

One might call that a misreading of the question...

McDuff wrote:

Sasha wrote:I selected the "I don't care as long as it can be turned down or off" option, except I DO care!

One might call that a misreading of the question...

I want maintenance and degradation, but I also want people who don't want maintenance to have the choice to turn it off.

Well, I voted for the "NOOOOO" option but I feel that having it as a selectable option could be a great choice for those who want a 'hardcore' version so ill switch. (as I have said in the fuel poll topic). Maybe there would be a point where I want to allow a very very slow and gradual degradation of my fleet that would require me to: a) Use it for some purpose immediately b) Have it automated so that my fleet automatically docks for repairs after losing like 10-15% of it's HP c) Disassemble them because I am not using them.

I'm mostly with Hardenberg and Grumble on this, except I want it to be heavily automated. I want to be able to build that automation myself. That's one of the things I liked about minecraft with some of those industrialcraft/buildcraft mods. You can make that automation.

However, I also realize that most people won't want to build that much stuff in order to make it automated enough not to grate on peoples' nerves (they'll get bored making the automation probably), so unless that's the same idea the majority of everyone else wants, I usually go with the 'fly free and shiny'.