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How long should each of these take?

Building a new medium sized ship at a standard, middle tier shipyard should take around 3 minute or less
Total votes: 10 (2%)
Building that same ship should take around 10 minutes
Total votes: 56 (14%)
Building that same ship should take around 30 minutes
Total votes: 44 (11%)
Building that same ship should take around an hour or two or more
Total votes: 27 (7%)
Constructing a medium-sized station using middle-tier construction gear should take 5 minutes or less
Total votes: 3 (1%)
Constructing that station should take 30-60 minutes or so
Total votes: 48 (12%)
Constructing that station should take an several hours or so
Total votes: 55 (13%)
Constructing that station should take a large portion of a day or more
Total votes: 32 (8%)
An average mining trip (scan, probe, extract, haul, store) should take 5 minutes or less
Total votes: 22 (5%)
An average mining trip should take 5-15 minutes or so
Total votes: 73 (18%)
An average mining trip should take 15-30 minutes or so
Total votes: 35 (8%)
An average mining trip should take 30-60 minutes or more.
Total votes: 8 (2%)
Total votes: 413
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Re: Timescale of LT

#16
i am new and i just want to say thank you for making this awesome game and including the users in this cool forum with polls but i was hoping for time scaling where i can build preset ships or stations in back ground while i mine or take the time to really focus on a ship or station and take as long as i want, but i would like 0.125x, 0.25x, 0.5x, 1x 2x 4x and 16x time scales to speed past boring parts or slow down the really cool parts like explosions. sorry if this has been already covered.

edit: i meant to include that i hope time-scaling is eventually in the game, but in the initial release it would be cool to have the option to have some input into the building process or the option to get a more preset model while i work on other tasks
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Re: Timescale of LT

#17
Welcome bcruz111!

I remember there was some talk about atleast accelerating time, and maybe slowing it down too. I would like such thing.

Please read the game FAQ.
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Re: Timescale of LT

#18
I think this is a good question. I am wondering however, what the user is doing during this time. Last month Josh talked about the idea of drone construction. I do not remember how far this idea has gone in its implementation, but I think that it is something that can't be forgotten here. With drone construction, I think construction times should be longer because you are allowed more freedom in what you do. I don't know if there is a way for you to build things yourself. So I guess that longer times would not hurt because you could choose to be away during construction, you don't have to be there the entire time.
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Re: Timescale of LT

#19
My thought is sort of as the previous thread suggests. The time scale is entirely relative. If you are building a ship for 5 minutes just sitting there watching it, it could be annoying (Unless you get to watch it being constructed aka X:Rebirth style which might be neat... the first and second time but beyond that still annoying). However if you take 1-6 hours to build a ship, yet you are actively doing other things for that time then the time won't be a thought. Especially if you start ramping up production and say you have your own shipyard/drydock and you can start building multiple ships in the same time frame. I do think that it should take a significant amount of time in 'game terms'. I think perhaps it should be gameplay optional though. In the sense that you can either build it yourself and take x hours and obviously the mats. Or you can expedite the process through perhaps an NPC shipyard which could devote considerably more resources to the construction effort with added cost for the usage of the facilities.

For example in the star wars 'lore' a normal ship yard could pump out one ship in a specific timeframe but a dedicated ship yard system such as Kuat could pump out 3-6 of the same ship in the same amount of time due to their extensive resources. OR they could reduce the time it takes to build that one ship by a certain factor. Taking say an hour's build time down to 15 minutes. It still all depends heavily on whether or not the player has other things to do. This could be mitigated to some degree by allowing the player to put in purchase orders through an NPC shipyard where the player isn't even at. So the player could be off doing other things then could get a notification saying "Ship completion in 5 minutes" which the player then could start making their way over if they want to take command of the ship themselves, or they could hire a crew to fly it to them or any number of situations. The point is the process shouldn't HAVE to be hands on for the player.

This is what I love about the direction Josh is heading with this game. Is that there might be a significant variety of choice available to the player. I just really really hope that people don't try to neuter the game because they don't want what they see as "unfun" elements.
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Re: Timescale of LT

#20
Voted 1-2 hours for the ship and several hours for the station. That enables some game play around protecting incomplete stations:
While incomplete, the station cannot protect itself, so you have to assign escorts to it or maybe babysit it yourself (in the early game).

The 1-2 hours for the ship are to keep the output/profit of a shipyard in reasonable proportion to the cost of building it.
I suggest aiming for an amortization time of factories similar to X3, which is around 60 in-game hours and seems reasonable for a relatively slow-paced game of exploration. If we apply that to a shipyard in LT and use the above 1-2 hours for building a medium sized ship, the shipyard would be amortized after building and selling 30-60 of those medium sized ships. Which seems appropriate, just as a gut feeling ;) .
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Re: Timescale of LT

#21
Where are all the other people who voted as I did that building big ships should take hours and stations should take days? I know you're out there; you voted!

Part of the reason for my votes is an idea of what the pace of LT should feel like (for me). I imagine dogfights between relatively small ships taking a couple of minutes, with large ship engagements taking up to maybe 10-15 minutes -- this pace is needed to give these big ships time to use all their features (multiple weapon types, defenses, damage control, etc.), otherwise cap ships are only fighters with delusions of grandeur.

OK, then -- if it takes 10-15 minutes to take down a capital ship, how does it make sense that one can be constructed in the same amount of time or less? Ditto for stations.

This is why I imagine fast and furious (seconds to minutes) pacing for combat; moderate (hours to a day) for construction, and days for crafting and executing large-scale plans.

Maybe that's a different kind of game -- one with more deliberation and less frequent (but brutal when it happens) action -- than others here are imagining playing.
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Re: Timescale of LT

#22
Flatfingers wrote:Where are all the other people who voted as I did that building big ships should take hours and stations should take days? I know you're out there; you voted!
Just look at the post before yours ;) .

We seem to be in agreement about wanting a relatively slow-paced game where big things take time to happen. Like X3 or EVE online, in both of these acquiring big ships (or the money for them) takes time.

Others might want something more like a RTS, where you can pop out new units within minutes. That can be fun too, but would not give you time to fly around and explore the universe. Because you would always need to be ready for quickly developing threats.
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Re: Timescale of LT

#23
Rabiator wrote:Others might want something more like a RTS, where you can pop out new units within minutes. That can be fun too, but would not give you time to fly around and explore the universe. Because you would always need to be ready for quickly developing threats.
Which is a perfectly valid way of having fun.

What I don't I know is whether one of ways of enjoying LT must punt the other out of existence.
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Re: Timescale of LT

#24
Flatfingers wrote:
Rabiator wrote:Others might want something more like a RTS, where you can pop out new units within minutes. That can be fun too, but would not give you time to fly around and explore the universe. Because you would always need to be ready for quickly developing threats.
Which is a perfectly valid way of having fun.

What I don't I know is whether one of ways of enjoying LT must punt the other out of existence.
In this case, the two different ways seem to exclude each other.

Going on a leisurely exploration tour will lose the game in a fast-paced RTS. Your enemies will overrun your bases while you are not looking.
A slow-paced game in terms of resource collection and building will frustrate those guys who want to get a fleet SoonTM.

At best, I think we can have adjustable times for building stuff. But it might be more complicated than it looks, because aspects like resource collection and travel time will need adjusting as well to make stuff happen quickly :think: .
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Re: Timescale of LT

#25
Rabiator wrote:At best, I think we can have adjustable times for building stuff. But it might be more complicated than it looks, because aspects like resource collection and travel time will need adjusting as well to make stuff happen quickly :think: .
Hmm. Would increasing the base cost for objects (particularly ships/stations) not have the effect of extending construction times in a natural way?

All other activity could go about its business in the normal way. Only the construction of big, dangerous things would be extended relative to the default setting. In turn my guess is that this more significant cost would tend to encourage players to use ships more carefully compared to simply zerging them.

Just thinking out loud....
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Re: Timescale of LT

#27
Flatfingers wrote:
Rabiator wrote:At best, I think we can have adjustable times for building stuff. But it might be more complicated than it looks, because aspects like resource collection and travel time will need adjusting as well to make stuff happen quickly :think: .
Hmm. Would increasing the base cost for objects (particularly ships/stations) not have the effect of extending construction times in a natural way?

All other activity could go about its business in the normal way. Only the construction of big, dangerous things would be extended relative to the default setting. In turn my guess is that this more significant cost would tend to encourage players to use ships more carefully compared to simply zerging them.

Just thinking out loud....
I guess it would extend the time until you can afford the big, dangerous things, and thereby accomplish most of what you suggest.

But it might be gamed somewhat by storing a bazillon units of materials at the base, then producing a ship quickly "on demand".

As in, do I need a carrier or a battleship? Let's wait how the war shapes up, then let the shipyard pop the right ship out once I need it. After all, the actual building takes only five minutes ;)
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Re: Timescale of LT

#28
ThymineC wrote:
Flatfingers wrote:Where are all the other people who voted as I did that building big ships should take hours and stations should take days? I know you're out there; you voted!
Here. Because they should.
^ +10

If things are too easy and fast to achieve/build, you don't get as much of a sense of accomplishment.

Putting that station out in the middle of nowhere and turning that system into a major hub should probably be the pinnacle for someone playing as a trader.
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Re: Timescale of LT

#29
DWMagus wrote:
ThymineC wrote:
Flatfingers wrote:Where are all the other people who voted as I did that building big ships should take hours and stations should take days? I know you're out there; you voted!
Here. Because they should.
^ +10

If things are too easy and fast to achieve/build, you don't get as much of a sense of accomplishment.

Putting that station out in the middle of nowhere and turning that system into a major hub should probably be the pinnacle for someone playing as a trader.
Days in real time? Even Skyrim only has around 120 of hours of gameplay in it, according to what I've read - and that's just five days. If I expect to play that long, that's only one or two stations, which won't be fun at all. In fact, that kind of makes stations pointless. If you can destroy them with a single attack, what's the point of building them if it takes days to set them up? Plus, keep in mind that after a while, if ships take too long to build, the universe will be utterly devoid of ships.

I'd be okay with a few hours to build a space station. I'd be okay with 20 minutes or so for a fighter or small bare-bones station, I suppose. I'd be okay with an hour-long wait for a decently sized ship or station, and a few hours for the biggest stuff, but days? At that point, the game stops being fun - you'll have to defend the station the entire time it's being built, remember, and I imagine that if it's such a big time sink, all your enemies would be quite happy to swarm you and take it out, destroying the resources you put into it and keeping it from ever being built.

I do agree that you need a sense of accomplishment, but that sense of accomplishment should come from seeing the universe evolve from your decisions, not by the simple act of building something.
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Re: Timescale of LT

#30
Talvieno wrote:[...]
"Days" as in it might take me between Tuesday and Friday to make a station playing for a few hours each day, not 72 hours, especially when combined with time-skipping.

You don't necessarily have to build one station after the other. You can build many concurrently.

You can delegate protection of a partially-constructed station to (a) subordinate(s).

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