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Re: Dying

#31
I'm going to ignore the whole iron man discussion for now as I've discovered a couple different associations with the term than I had originally known after doing more research. So apparently Iron-man /isn't/ just what you or I think it means. But anyways the point of my post is there should be options, and I'm trying to suggest some of those options. I'd rather let's turn the discussion back to that as opposed to criticism on my wording choice.

Ultimately I don't think we decide anything really when it comes to the finished product, I'm mostly here to throw out ideas to freshen up the discussion on these forums and maybe give Josh a different approach to something he may not have thought people would enjoy.

I think options and variety in how the game handles things like death would suit Limit Theory. More so if it can also be modded. I'd love to play permadeath where on dying I am put back in and maybe end up fighting the empire I originally created. But I'd also love to sometimes not, and just lose the ship but nothing else. Thus, I suggest options.
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Re: Dying

#32
Ateerix wrote:
Sat Apr 21, 2018 2:34 pm
I feel like we are making this more difficult than it needs to be.

[continues with outlining a pretty complex system based around respawns and fast forwarding the simulation and moving assets]
so much to "more difficult than it needs to be"

have the player reload when their "body" dies.

removes all the complexity of trying to determine a workable amount of credits to give the player in a highly dynamic economy
(or an appropriate ship or whatever).

removes the need of defining a ship to be fast-forward-teleported back to [some] location

removes the need of finding a save respawn point to begin with.

anything thats actual respawning (with the included "there are some resources to build back up from") is way too much hassle in my opinion
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Re: Dying

#34
Cornflakes_91 wrote:
Sun Apr 22, 2018 4:07 am
Ateerix wrote:
Sat Apr 21, 2018 2:34 pm
I feel like we are making this more difficult than it needs to be.

[continues with outlining a pretty complex system based around respawns and fast forwarding the simulation and moving assets]
so much to "more difficult than it needs to be"

have the player reload when their "body" dies.

removes all the complexity of trying to determine a workable amount of credits to give the player in a highly dynamic economy
(or an appropriate ship or whatever).

removes the need of defining a ship to be fast-forward-teleported back to [some] location

removes the need of finding a save respawn point to begin with.

anything thats actual respawning (with the included "there are some resources to build back up from") is way too much hassle in my opinion
Yeah but now you've gone to X3 mode where you accidentally die and have to reload 10hrs worth of time.

That's when I uninstall the game and try to get a refund.
I am literally and wholly in love with myself.
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Re: Dying

#35
In my mind, the standard gameplay mode is Exploration mode, except there's no "respawning" -- you just reload from your last save (or a checkpoint save if you were forgetful).

If it's important to you that the game try to challenge you in some way, then I have no objection to there being a separate mode where you respawn with some stuff lost. But I'd personally rather this wasn't the default.

All of which may be moot; Josh's idea of how to deal with getting blowed up could be different from all of these, or not. In any event, it'll be whatever he thinks Limit Theory should be like.

Ateerix wrote:
Sun Apr 22, 2018 1:44 pm
I should just edit my original post to say "have options" and be done with it -_-


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Re: Dying

#36
Black--Snow wrote:
Sun Apr 22, 2018 10:42 pm
Yeah but now you've gone to X3 mode where you accidentally die and have to reload 10hrs worth of time.

That's when I uninstall the game and try to get a refund.
Turn on autosave.

If you lose 10h of progress because you cant be assed to press F5 now and then its a case of PEBKAC or error ID-10-T

(Assuming free saving unlike the x games, and even there i never encountered that because i think to dock and save occasionally)
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Re: Dying

#38
Cornflakes_91 wrote:
Sun Apr 22, 2018 11:50 pm
Black--Snow wrote:
Sun Apr 22, 2018 10:42 pm
Yeah but now you've gone to X3 mode where you accidentally die and have to reload 10hrs worth of time.

That's when I uninstall the game and try to get a refund.
Turn on autosave.

If you lose 10h of progress because you cant be assed to press F5 now and then its a case of PEBKAC or error ID-10-T

(Assuming free saving unlike the x games, and even there i never encountered that because i think to dock and save occasionally)
Losing a hand to a dangerous piece of machinery can result in a lawsuit against the manufacturer if realistic safety mechanisms weren't built in.

That's to say: You can't make your safety mechanisms be retarded then claim your users are idiots for not being able to utilise them.

I forgot to press F5. In fact I don't /want/ to have to make a ritual of saving. It's a game, I make enough habits and rituals in real life and I don't need that shit. Plus, just like in X3. If I had to reload every time I died, I wouldn't fight in battles which is part of the fun for me. It would severely reduce my enjoyment of the game.

You could say "Oh but if you save you lose nothing!" but I retort with this: I don't want to accidentally die near the end of winning a fight and have to fight it again.
Last edited by Black--Snow on Mon Apr 23, 2018 1:16 am, edited 2 times in total.
I am literally and wholly in love with myself.
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Re: Dying

#40
A potential system is free, consequenceless cloning.

As I envision it, you'd be able to clone at any time (Dead / alive) to any friendly or owned facility anywhere in the universe. This necessarily leaves you current ship under AI control and may put you in a default 'transport' ship or similar (I.e. EVE Pod).
To keep the player engaged in battles, cap ships could be equipped with cloning bays so that on ship destruction, the player can jump out and jump back into piloting another of their craft. Additionally for sub-cap fleets, dedicated smaller medical ships could be built to provide a close, mobile respawn point for players that may not be able to afford cap ships yet.
I am literally and wholly in love with myself.
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Re: Dying

#41
Save and reload whenever I like? Yes, please.

Some ideas if I don't feel like reloading:
1. I would love to just select an AI player to take over after the death of my current character and basically inherit the assets with the new one. Maybe optionally redistribute the assets in the faction to mix up the gameplay a bit more.
2. Just let me respawn on a nearby allied base/ship and continue playing from there, only losing the destroyed ship and having a different position as a consequence. (Simplified version of Black--Snows idea)
3. Start over in the same universe with a new character
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Re: Dying

#43
thedamngod wrote:
Mon Apr 23, 2018 5:51 am
I would love to just select an AI player to take over after the death of my current character and basically inherit the assets with the new one. Maybe optionally redistribute the assets in the faction to mix up the gameplay a bit more.

A variation on this: if your current ship is destroyed, you become the Limit Theory equivalent of a Force Ghost. The world continues on without you; you can't directly affect anything, but you can watch to see how the universe unfolds in your absence. If you led a faction, the next-highest ranking NPC takes over for you. (Or maybe there's a power struggle.)

You can watch for as long as like, then reload when you're ready to try out some new ideas.

Speaking of recovering from ship destruction: how did Freelancer do it?

Maybe just do that.
Post

Re: Dying

#44
I guess you all did not understand fully the consequence of the Viszokoy-Beaumont law.

As you know, both physisists have proven that due to Heisenberg's uncertainty, a translation from normal space (where relativity reigns and the speed of light is a maximum) to hyperspace (where the well known laws show that the speed of light is the minimum speed) and back to normal space lead to a statistical misplacement of particles.

The consequences are negligible for macroscopic items, as it generates at most micro-fissures, similar to normal aging as generated by solar exposition or mechanical wear. However, the consequences have proven dramatic for complex biological material - in particular the complex meta structures of the brain suffer frequently subtle displacements resulting in changes in personality, stupidity or infrequently death.

Inherent to the law's mathematical description, we know that one solution is to reduce probability by reducing temperature. A frozen brain at 0.5K has statistically less risk of jump damage in hibernation than it would have by living the same duration on a normal class-E planet. Of course, entering and leaving hibernation takes some time (on average it is considered that it takes, beyond the 12h of dehybernation, 2-3 days more to revert to peak efficiency), so while this solution is good enough for passenger transportation (and to transport seeds/other living biological material), it does not allow for an active crew to manage efficient / fast hop-in and out of systems for trading (or fast reaction to threats).

It seemed that the only option was to completely remove the crew and have computarised ships. However, during the hegemonian singularity of Klyth it became obvious that it was not possible to create an AI with enough creativity and independance to be a real replacement for an intelligent crew, while at the same time being a "slave", i.e. bound to external orders (it usually finishes like the Klyth fleet where all AI driven ships have jumped into the sun in a mass-suicide and death of millions of hybernating passengers). So while AI are a possibility and some civilizations are symbiosis of biological life on planets and AI-life in space, this is not the option chosen by most.

Indeed most space faring species have converged to a hybrid solution, where the body of the crew is taken care of on a planet, but the attention and intelligence is remotely controlling the ship, residing on circuitry and having real time resonance thanks to quantum coupled hubs. The later system not only allows instant interaction, it also makes the system impossible to hack as the coupling must take place with both sides being physically present.
The downside is that you cannot buy a ship at an arbitrary location and hop in, but one ship carrying your quantum hub must meet with any new ship to grant you contact. However, after this operation, you can switch your attention from ship to ship almost instanteneously, while leaving "unmanned" ships out-of-your-attention to other crew members or basic automation.

--

Consequences for gameplay:
  • Dying is a loss of assets; the player can choose to have an insurance that cover (part of) the loss as an option. The player, however, must restart from the location of another ship (or any base he visited and chose to store a hub, assuming a cheap galaxy-wide service of storing quantum coupled hubs)
  • Permadeath is compatible: you can add a (user-defined) probability that in case of catastrophic destruction, the control does not revert correctly to the body, thus demaging the real being and for game purposes eliminating it (the emotional scars don't let him project his brain again, he lives happily ever after as a taxi driver). The probability-driven approach adds a certain dimention to the game: do I take chances, knowing that I have a good probability of surviving? Is a 1%-risk of "permadeath" enough to stop me? Of course, you can set it to 0% or 100% to remove this dimension.
  • The player can jump from ship to ship if he has several ships, the game-AI takes over the unmanned ships (to be discussed: either with a set of simple order or with independance). This gives an in-game explanation of the possibility to take direct control of any ship in your fleet.
  • The storage of hubs at planets/stations allow for the acquisition of new assets at different locations
  • By requireing physical contact to enable a new ship, this forces the player to expend outwards - no "jumping over" to the other side of the galaxy
  • This system is independant of an optional (manual or automated, tbd) "save" strategy where you can save your game at any time to test different options (meta-game, no in-game explanation for this)
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