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Re: UPS (uninterruptible power supply)/ power bank/ power storage

#31
I would expect certain weapon systems to be under a category based off of the stats of the weapon system and what the original manufacturer decided it would be. Basically any flack system of a particular weight would be defined as a defense system. This is a group of flack guns which excel at killing small targets. Perhaps a simple toggle for if it's routed through the ships computer or not would easily decide if it's purely defensive, or if the player should be able to use it offensively as well.

I define a system as a part of the ship which performs a specific task. There is a weapon system composed of all the offensive weapons. An engine and shield system which control thrust and shield recharge rate respectively, life support system if applicable, et cetera. The weapon system can have a set recharge rate dependent on the number of pips assigned to it. All of the guns are in particular groups which are defined by the player. By default, all weapons could be in Group 1.

Offensive and defensive systems are two separate systems as I just described above. Since they are separate they do not need to both be powered at the same time.
I prefer the pip system because it's easier for me to see at a glance how much power I am allocating to every system. It also makes reallocation of energy fairly easy when in a combat situation since you near instantly know what needs to be lowered, and by how much to make a difference in energy distribution in a different system.

The player can change weapon groups while mobile also. I should have stated that before. Anyways, I have been arguing for groups this entire time. But only weapon groups, not energy groups.

Over simplified example:

Ship system:

Engines
Shields
Communications
Defensive: - (ECM, AMS, Flack, automated defenses)
Offensive: -
--weapon groups (selected by player when shooting)
---individual offensive weapons

Pips are assigned on the ship system level.
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Re: UPS (uninterruptible power supply)/ power bank/ power storage

#32
BFett wrote:
Sat Oct 21, 2017 5:12 pm
I would expect certain weapon systems to be under a category based off of the stats of the weapon system and what the original manufacturer decided it would be. Basically any flack system of a particular weight would be defined as a defense system. This is a group of flack guns which excel at killing small targets. Perhaps a simple toggle for if it's routed through the ships computer or not would easily decide if it's purely defensive, or if the player should be able to use it offensively as well.
because computers are so good in determining the usefulness of weapons for certain tasks :V

why is a thing thats essentially a cannon like any else be filed under a different group than any other cannon?
a gun is a gun is a gun and should be put together with all the other guns.
and whats a missile defence gun on a capital ship is maybe just a normal gun on a smaller ship, how to handle that without getting weird inconsistencies?

BFett wrote:
Sat Oct 21, 2017 5:12 pm

Engines
Shields
Communications
Defensive: - (ECM, AMS, Flack, automated defenses)
Offensive: -
--weapon groups (selected by player when shooting)
---individual offensive weapons
and now i have to power down my sensor jammers to get power back from my currently useless anti missile guns :V
BFett wrote:
Sat Oct 21, 2017 5:12 pm
The player can change weapon groups while mobile also. I should have stated that before. Anyways, I have been arguing for groups this entire time. But only weapon groups, not energy groups.
so instead of just this
Spoiler:      SHOW
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for power and control groups

we need to argue about arbitrary automatic assignments that cant ever be changed ... why?

why do all guns need to have the same energy assignment?
if you want more power to weapons then increase the total power allocation to weapons, if you want to power down just the point defense guns just power them down with an extra button press or two
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Re: UPS (uninterruptible power supply)/ power bank/ power storage

#33
Cornflakes_91 wrote:
Sat Oct 21, 2017 5:39 pm
BFett wrote:
Sat Oct 21, 2017 5:12 pm
I would expect certain weapon systems to be under a category based off of the stats of the weapon system and what the original manufacturer decided it would be. Basically any flack system of a particular weight would be defined as a defense system. This is a group of flack guns which excel at killing small targets. Perhaps a simple toggle for if it's routed through the ships computer or not would easily decide if it's purely defensive, or if the player should be able to use it offensively as well.
Cornflakes_91 wrote:
Sat Oct 21, 2017 5:39 pm
because computers are so good in determining the usefulness of weapons for certain tasks :V

why is a thing thats essentially a cannon like any else be filed under a different group than any other cannon?
a gun is a gun is a gun and should be put together with all the other guns.
and whats a missile defence gun on a capital ship is maybe just a normal gun on a smaller ship, how to handle that without getting weird inconsistencies?
If you don't think LT will be able to fit ships with good guns after history generation then I suspect that I will find LT combat to be annoyingly boring and broken.
BFett wrote:
Sat Oct 21, 2017 5:12 pm

Engines
Shields
Communications
Defensive: - (ECM, AMS, Flack, automated defenses)
Offensive: -
--weapon groups (selected by player when shooting)
---individual offensive weapons
Cornflakes_91 wrote:
Sat Oct 21, 2017 5:39 pm
and now i have to power down my sensor jammers to get power back from my currently useless anti missile guns :V
Sounds to me like you have too many extra systems on your ship. Optimize it or get used to painful trade offs. Or buy a better ship, optimize your fleet so you don't have a one ship does all battle cruiser. That's right, I want ships to be diverse and not able to do everything.
BFett wrote:
Sat Oct 21, 2017 5:12 pm
The player can change weapon groups while mobile also. I should have stated that before. Anyways, I have been arguing for groups this entire time. But only weapon groups, not energy groups.
Cornflakes_91 wrote:
Sat Oct 21, 2017 5:39 pm
so instead of just this
Spoiler:      SHOW
Image
for power and control groups

we need to argue about arbitrary automatic assignments that cant ever be changed ... why?
Does each colored circle represent a powered system? Power can be transferred between systems. There's nothing arbitrary about it.
Cornflakes_91 wrote:
Sat Oct 21, 2017 5:39 pm
why do all guns need to have the same energy assignment?
if you want more power to weapons then increase the total power allocation to weapons, if you want to power down just the point defense guns just power them down with an extra button press or two
It's for simplicity so that the player doesn't need to look at 30 guns and determine which are powered and which are not. How much power is saved by turning off a turret and then turning it back on compared to just leaving the same turret on standby as you use a different group. Initial power draw is always more than the passive draw. Shutting down half your guns while using only the aft ones only saves you a negligible amount of energy. As in less than one pip unit.
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Re: UPS (uninterruptible power supply)/ power bank/ power storage

#34
BFett wrote:
Sat Oct 21, 2017 8:23 pm
Cornflakes_91 wrote:
Sat Oct 21, 2017 5:39 pm
why is a thing thats essentially a cannon like any else be filed under a different group than any other cannon?
a gun is a gun is a gun and should be put together with all the other guns.
and whats a missile defence gun on a capital ship is maybe just a normal gun on a smaller ship, how to handle that without getting weird inconsistencies?
If you don't think LT will be able to fit ships with good guns after history generation then I suspect that I will find LT combat to be annoyingly boring and broken.
and how does this answer why some guns are filed under weapon systems and other under something else?
why would some cannons be so fundamentally different from others that they arent even controllable as guns?

and its absolutely impossible that i could possibly want to use different weapons than the game determined for some purpose?
why am i bound by what the game determines a gun to be on top of its stats?
BFett wrote:
Sat Oct 21, 2017 5:12 pm
Cornflakes_91 wrote:
Sat Oct 21, 2017 5:39 pm
and now i have to power down my sensor jammers to get power back from my currently useless anti missile guns :V

Sounds to me like you have too many extra systems on your ship. Optimize it or get used to painful trade offs. Or buy a better ship, optimize your fleet so you don't have a one ship does all battle cruiser. That's right, I want ships to be diverse and not able to do everything.
no, i simply used the example you provided
BFett wrote:
Sat Oct 21, 2017 5:12 pm
Defensive: - (ECM, AMS, Flack, automated defenses)
so why are some guns so special that im not allowed to control them as guns?

also: oh noes a cruiser that has guns AND an electronic warfare suite! it can do absolutely everything![/sarcasm]
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get the interface design aspects which have to work for every situation thats allowed within the game code separated from balance issues
BFett wrote:
Sat Oct 21, 2017 5:12 pm
Does each colored circle represent a powered system? Power can be transferred between systems. There's nothing arbitrary about it.
the way i've drawn it there is nothing arbitrary about it, no.
but the way you describe it there is.
why are some guns thrown in with ECM systems
BFett wrote:
Sat Oct 21, 2017 5:12 pm
It's for simplicity so that the player doesn't need to look at 30 guns and determine which are powered and which are not.
[/quote]

thats what (sub) groups are for, that you dont have to look at 30 things individually
"i dont need my point defence guns now" -> flip the switch over weapons>point defence
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Re: UPS (uninterruptible power supply)/ power bank/ power storage

#35
Well, we could make it so that all weapon systems can be defined as offensive or defensive and in doing so define what is and isn't player controlled. This doesn't sound fun to me, but if it's something you can't live without I'm not completely against the idea. I was thinking that certain guns would be grouped together in one large unit that specialized in knocking out missiles or fighter. Basically an array of flack turrets which do all the fine detail work for you. Because missiles are small and you have more important things to worry about than shooting missiles down individually. But you seem to want to have access to that stuff so why not.
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Re: UPS (uninterruptible power supply)/ power bank/ power storage

#36
BFett wrote:
Sun Oct 22, 2017 8:41 am
Well, we could make it so that all weapon systems can be defined as offensive or defensive and in doing so define what is and isn't player controlled. This doesn't sound fun to me, but if it's something you can't live without I'm not completely against the idea. I was thinking that certain guns would be grouped together in one large unit that specialized in knocking out missiles or fighter. Basically an array of flack turrets which do all the fine detail work for you. Because missiles are small and you have more important things to worry about than shooting missiles down individually. But you seem to want to have access to that stuff so why not.
and just setting any of the weapon groups to "automatic" is a complex thing?
create control group, set it to "auto" and maybe set its target priorities.
like i'd expect to be able to do with any of my ships.
thats how its done in the X games and it works perfectly fine there.
no need to hard define some guns as someone not guns because they have certain stats.

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