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diplomacy

#1
So josh, Will there be some type of diplomacy menu, letting you friend or be-friend other factions.

Or will it be more of a --do something a faction likes and your opinion of you goes up to a certain faction?-- Or maybe both, that would make more sense i guess.

kind of like mount and blade, how factions recognize your actions, whether it be defeating a common enemy, or saving one of their fleets.

also would factions have starting planets right off the bat? Like they have a set territory?

Basically, its would be like starting a Total war game

Just wanted to see where you are heading with this?
https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/jo ... ts/1083426
Last edited by petertohen on Sun Aug 06, 2017 11:38 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: diplomacy

#2
Hey Petertohen! Welcome to the forum! :wave: I hope we see more of you in the future.

The current plans for LT absolutely have you capable of making friends (or enemies!) with other factions. You'll have your own personal reputation, and then your faction will have a reputation as well. As for factions having starting territories - I think some of them will, from what we've seen. Some may not have their own planets and may have a space they consider their "territory", and some may roam as nomads, depending on what's most profitable at the time/where they are. The biggest factions will almost certainly have their own headquarters, though, likely as entire star systems, and of course as planets and space stations as well.

There is also a distinct possibility that things may happen that cause factions to fracture into smaller groups - the death of a prominent leader, for instance. Two factions might even merge at some point, or get swallowed up by much larger ones. If the AI treats factions as distinct entities, they could learn to put a value on it, and essentially "purchase" factions from other leaders... provided the leader wants to buy. They would be treated like companies in that instance, more than countries. If NPCs have different "goals", which I'm assured they will, some won't be able to be bought out. And of course, war is always an option.
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Re: diplomacy

#3
That's great information Talvieno. It sounds to me like you have a bit better view of the LT development than some of the other regulars here. Do you speak with Josh regularly? If so, and if you aren't under a strict NDA, could you start sharing updates of what you've chatted with Josh about?

I'm pretty sure this isn't all public knowledge. If it is, well I guess I need to read more of the old logs in my signature :P
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Re: diplomacy

#7
Cornflakes_91 wrote:
Sat Aug 05, 2017 5:25 am
Flatfingers wrote:
Fri Aug 04, 2017 11:57 pm
Any willingness to say whether LT will or won't let characters have varied standings with multiple factions? ;)
considering that this
Spoiler:      SHOW
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is one of the main inspirations im daring to assume that we will have individual standings with every faction :P

Thank you, Talvieno. *cough*

Actually, I don't mind speculation from us out here. And I suspect that this guessumption is accurate.

But as it's a pretty fundamental design decision, with major impact on both active gameplay and the dynamic social fabric of the gameworld, it would be nice to know if "multi-faction" is officially A Thing.

Note that the Official Limit Theory Feature List does not currently provide a direct answer to the question I asked:

  • Will be in Limit Theory 1.0:
    • Gameplay mechanics:
      • Factions
        • Reputation system
        • Player faction creation and management
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Re: diplomacy

#8
Flatfingers wrote:
Fri Aug 04, 2017 11:57 pm
Any willingness to say whether LT will or won't let characters have varied standings with multiple factions? ;)
The answer is basically what Cornflakes said. "I don't know for sure, but I'm willing to bet so." Officially "A thing"? No. It's likely, though, as far as I can tell. I mean, it makes sense. How else would you do it? Otherwise it's a free-for-all where you have two choices: everybody loves you, or everybody hates you. In order to form alliances with some factions and enemies with others, you must have varied standings with multiple factions.

In case I misunderstood: Whether each individual NPC will have its own unique standings with other individual NPCs, though... I don't know. I'm betting not. That's complexity for the sake of complexity, and probably more than anyone is willing to deal with.
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Re: diplomacy

#9
Talvieno wrote:
Sat Aug 05, 2017 11:32 am
Flatfingers wrote:
Fri Aug 04, 2017 11:57 pm
Any willingness to say whether LT will or won't let characters have varied standings with multiple factions? ;)
The answer is basically what Cornflakes said. "I don't know for sure, but I'm willing to bet so." Officially "A thing"? No. It's likely, though, as far as I can tell. I mean, it makes sense. How else would you do it? Otherwise it's a free-for-all where you have two choices: everybody loves you, or everybody hates you. In order to form alliances with some factions and enemies with others, you must have varied standings with multiple factions.

Fair enough. (Though if it seems that likely, is it worth a couple of words in the List of Features?)

Talvieno wrote:
Sat Aug 05, 2017 11:32 am
In case I misunderstood: Whether each individual NPC will have its own unique standings with other individual NPCs, though... I don't know. I'm betting not. That's complexity for the sake of complexity, and probably more than anyone is willing to deal with.

No, you're right, that's not what I was suggesting.

Having said that, though, I could see a use for character-level standing among characters in the same faction. If NPCs are going to have personality traits -- if that's a feature JoshCo. are going to spend time developing -- then I don't think it's unreasonable to identify opportunities to give that feature plenty of active applications so that maximum value is extracted from the design/implementation time invested.

Finally, what about factions themselves having varied standings with other factions? If Faction A is loved by Faction B but hated by Faction C, and you do something good or bad to Faction A, why shouldn't that action have second-order effects on how you are perceived by Factions B and C? (I think Chris Parsons of Sol Trader and Ealdorlight fame might have an opinion on whether this is useful in a game where personalities matter!)

And please note that this last thought on factions having standing with each other (and characters) is directly relevant to the subject of "diplomacy."
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Re: diplomacy

#10
Flatfingers wrote:
Sat Aug 05, 2017 11:59 am
Finally, what about factions themselves having varied standings with other factions? If Faction A is loved by Faction B but hated by Faction C, and you do something good or bad to Faction A, why shouldn't that action have second-order effects on how you are perceived by Factions B and C? (I think Chris Parsons of Sol Trader and Ealdorlight fame might have an opinion on whether this is useful in a game where personalities matter!)
in first iteration i'd think that "relations between characters" and "relations between factions" are interchangeable.

from joshs ooooold talk about executive NPC's its so that factions consist out of 1 NPC with actual relationships and personality and a swarm of minions who are just swept in with their leader.

so there are no characters inside a faction that could have independent relationships
(although im working on some ideas to at least partially change that)
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Re: diplomacy

#11
Flatfingers wrote:
Fri Aug 04, 2017 11:57 pm
Any willingness to say whether LT will or won't let characters have varied standings with multiple factions? ;)
random thought:

would multidimensional standings be something worthwile? :think:

for example separated military and civilian standings between factions.
two "warring" corporations competing for the same market would have a relatively low civilian standing because they are direct opponents
but have neutral/friendly military standing because they wouldnt start raiding each others transports to stop their thruster shipments and still stick together if some military enemy would enter their spheres of influence.
:think:

just a random idea.
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Re: diplomacy

#12
Talvieno wrote:
Fri Aug 04, 2017 7:56 am
The current plans for LT absolutely have you capable of making friends (or enemies!) with other factions.
Any news concerning having factionless friends, Nathan? I thought that was going to be possible in LT. :?

:shifty: I don't mind you answering this Josh. I promise I won't get my panties in a bunch if you don't. :mrgreen: Did I misunderstand you when you were talking about striking up friendships with individuals? I don't want to be part of any faction and I was assuming there will be NPC's who will cherish the same status. ;) Juni could be a Freelancer with no affiliation to the LSF or the like. ;)

Freelancers can be diplomatic when it's required. ;) :angel:
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Re: diplomacy

#13
Victor Tombs wrote:
Tue Aug 08, 2017 5:15 am
Any news concerning having factionless friends, Nathan? I thought that was going to be possible in LT. :?

:shifty: I don't mind you answering this Josh. I promise I won't get my panties in a bunch if you don't. :mrgreen: Did I misunderstand you when you were talking about striking up friendships with individuals? I don't want to be part of any faction and I was assuming there will be NPC's who will cherish the same status. ;) Juni could be a Freelancer with no affiliation to the LSF or the like. ;)

Freelancers can be diplomatic when it's required. ;) :angel:
from what josh told us last is that every executive AI (aka the ones you can actually be friends with) is eir own faction.

so its more likely that you'll be friends with Juni's faction than Juni the LSF member
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Re: diplomacy

#14
Cornflakes_91 wrote:
Tue Aug 08, 2017 5:43 am
from what josh told us last is that every executive AI (aka the ones you can actually be friends with) is eir own faction.

so its more likely that you'll be friends with Juni's faction than Juni the LSF member
Thanks, Cornflakes :thumbup: Although not quite what I had in mind that would certainly work. :angel:
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Re: diplomacy

#15
Victor Tombs wrote:
Tue Aug 08, 2017 5:15 am
Talvieno wrote:
Fri Aug 04, 2017 7:56 am
The current plans for LT absolutely have you capable of making friends (or enemies!) with other factions.
Any news concerning having factionless friends, Nathan? I thought that was going to be possible in LT. :?

:shifty: I don't mind you answering this Josh. I promise I won't get my panties in a bunch if you don't. :mrgreen: Did I misunderstand you when you were talking about striking up friendships with individuals? I don't want to be part of any faction and I was assuming there will be NPC's who will cherish the same status. ;) Juni could be a Freelancer with no affiliation to the LSF or the like. ;)

Freelancers can be diplomatic when it's required. ;) :angel:
I'm not actually sure about this. My instincts say "probably not", but I could be wrong.
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