ship editor

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ship editor

Postby jonathanredden » Wed Jan 25, 2017 11:33 pm

what kind of shapes will we have in the game will we have in the game(spheres, tubes/cylinders, cubes, saucer/disc shapes, rectangular shapes?) can we change the x axis (making it longer,) can we change the y axis (making it taller) and can we scale the shapes proportionately (x and y axis increase at the same time?) how large can we make these shapes of ship class restrictions may apply? (smallest to largest) fighter, bomber, corvette, frigate, destroyer, cruiser, battlecruiser/battleship( battle cruiser could be a separate class, it could be fast and have a small number of battleship sized weapons but large numbers of medium and small weapons,) dreadnought, titan, etc.
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Re: ship editor

Postby BFett » Thu Jan 26, 2017 1:37 am

Josh addressed this in one of the videos prior to the first dev video. We will see procedural shapes which can be lengthened and shortened on the xyz axis.

We also know that Josh is aiming for scale that is 1:1000. Meaning if a 10m long fighter is the smallest ship, the largest ships will be 10,000m long. We don't know exact details yet.
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Re: ship editor

Postby Cornflakes_91 » Thu Jan 26, 2017 1:50 am

jonathanredden wrote:smallest to largest) fighter, bomber, corvette, frigate, destroyer, cruiser, battlecruiser/battleship( battle cruiser could be a separate class, it could be fast and have a small number of battleship sized weapons but large numbers of medium and small weapons,) dreadnought, titan, etc.


Arbitary distinctions are arbitary.
Whats the differences between ship classes beyond size when the player defines the ships through hardpoint placement?
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Re: ship editor

Postby Black--Snow » Thu Jan 26, 2017 5:41 am

Cornflakes_91 wrote:
jonathanredden wrote:smallest to largest) fighter, bomber, corvette, frigate, destroyer, cruiser, battlecruiser/battleship( battle cruiser could be a separate class, it could be fast and have a small number of battleship sized weapons but large numbers of medium and small weapons,) dreadnought, titan, etc.


Arbitary distinctions are arbitary.
Whats the differences between ship classes beyond size when the player defines the ships through hardpoint placement?

Indeed. The distinctions don't mean very much when the ships are so dynamic in function, build, size and materials. It's not very easily distinguishable imho.
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Re: ship editor

Postby cuisinart8 » Thu Jan 26, 2017 11:02 am

If we get ship classes in the editor, I think they should be player-defined. After all, we'll know the purposes of our ships better than the game.
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Re: ship editor

Postby Black--Snow » Thu Jan 26, 2017 7:34 pm

cuisinart8 wrote:If we get ship classes in the editor, I think they should be player-defined. After all, we'll know the purposes of our ships better than the game.

I'm inclined to both agree and disagree for different reasons. I believe that the game should assign a size class to the ships you create as it could be used for mechanics purposes for example: "no ships above cruiser size may enter this system without angering the local police" or some such other things.
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Re: ship editor

Postby cuisinart8 » Thu Jan 26, 2017 8:25 pm

Black--Snow wrote:
cuisinart8 wrote:If we get ship classes in the editor, I think they should be player-defined. After all, we'll know the purposes of our ships better than the game.

I'm inclined to both agree and disagree for different reasons. I believe that the game should assign a size class to the ships you create as it could be used for mechanics purposes for example: "no ships above cruiser size may enter this system without angering the local police" or some such other things.

Very true. The names of player-made ship classes could be chosen, but the game could categorize them with weight classes or something to allow situations like the above. The game could also have premade names for the weight classes for the purpose of giving procedural ships class names.
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Re: ship editor

Postby Black--Snow » Fri Jan 27, 2017 2:46 am

cuisinart8 wrote:
Black--Snow wrote:
cuisinart8 wrote:If we get ship classes in the editor, I think they should be player-defined. After all, we'll know the purposes of our ships better than the game.

I'm inclined to both agree and disagree for different reasons. I believe that the game should assign a size class to the ships you create as it could be used for mechanics purposes for example: "no ships above cruiser size may enter this system without angering the local police" or some such other things.

Very true. The names of player-made ship classes could be chosen, but the game could categorize them with weight classes or something to allow situations like the above. The game could also have premade names for the weight classes for the purpose of giving procedural ships class names.

Well, following suite of the naval classes, there are three naming features of a ship:
Its size class (eg. Battleship)
Its class designation (eg. San Antonio class Battleship)
Its name (eg. USS New York - San Antonio class battleship)

Generally the first ship of any designation is named the same as its designation (eg. The first San Antonio class ship was named 'San Antonio'). These three (or only two) naming conventions could be used, where the name and designation are player created while the class is automatically assigned based on the ships' size, mass and hard point composition.
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Re: ship editor

Postby cuisinart8 » Fri Jan 27, 2017 9:31 am

Black--Snow wrote:Well, following suite of the naval classes, there are three naming features of a ship:
Its size class (eg. Battleship)
Its class designation (eg. San Antonio class Battleship)
Its name (eg. USS New York - San Antonio class battleship)

Generally the first ship of any designation is named the same as its designation (eg. The first San Antonio class ship was named 'San Antonio'). These three (or only two) naming conventions could be used, where the name and designation are player created while the class is automatically assigned based on the ships' size, mass and hard point composition.

That seems like it would work well. It would be nice to be able to customize the class name as well, just in case you come up with some radical idea that the game doesn't account for.
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Re: ship editor

Postby Cornflakes_91 » Fri Jan 27, 2017 9:49 am

cuisinart8 wrote:
Black--Snow wrote:
cuisinart8 wrote:If we get ship classes in the editor, I think they should be player-defined. After all, we'll know the purposes of our ships better than the game.

I'm inclined to both agree and disagree for different reasons. I believe that the game should assign a size class to the ships you create as it could be used for mechanics purposes for example: "no ships above cruiser size may enter this system without angering the local police" or some such other things.

Very true. The names of player-made ship classes could be chosen, but the game could categorize them with weight classes or something to allow situations like the above. The game could also have premade names for the weight classes for the purpose of giving procedural ships class names.



I'd disagree on it being purely volume/size.
I'd personally use a combination of size, defensive capabilities, offensive capabilities and ratios between them to classify ship types.

Just because its as big as a battleship it doesnt have to be one.
It could just be a freighter, a mobile mining base, a factory etc.

To take up the example of the angry police:
The rulings would be more along the lines of "ships above x firepower arent allowed to have a firepower/size ratio over 0.3 or total firepower over y"
((With whatever exact numbers make sense, with some fuzzy edges))


Edit:
The ratios and so forth could of course generate discrete classes again and rulings could use those classes in their calculations.
So the ruling would be "no cruiser or larger sized military ships allowed" but with "cruiser or larger" being defined by the ratio system.


On a side note: it would be fun to be able to corece officials to shift classifications of your ships "a bit".
to get your combat refitted transporter still being classified as transporter instead of the frigate it now equates. :lol:
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Re: ship editor

Postby cuisinart8 » Fri Jan 27, 2017 12:26 pm

Cornflakes_91 wrote:I'd disagree on it being purely volume/size.
I'd personally use a combination of size, defensive capabilities, offensive capabilities and ratios between them to classify ship types.

Just because its as big as a battleship it doesnt have to be one.
It could just be a freighter, a mobile mining base, a factory etc.

To take up the example of the angry police:
The rulings would be more along the lines of "ships above x firepower arent allowed to have a firepower/size ratio over 0.3 or total firepower over y"
((With whatever exact numbers make sense, with some fuzzy edges))


Edit:
The ratios and so forth could of course generate discrete classes again and rulings could use those classes in their calculations.
So the ruling would be "no cruiser or larger sized military ships allowed" but with "cruiser or larger" being defined by the ratio system.


On a side note: it would be fun to be able to corece officials to shift classifications of your ships "a bit".
to get your combat refitted transporter still being classified as transporter instead of the frigate it now equates. :lol:


This is what happens when I try to comment on game mechanics with little sleep- I miss important things. Like this. It would be stupid to say, piss off the police by bringing a superfreighter in-system when they disallow "battleships." This looks to be a better method of classing ships, and it still leaves a lot of room for the player to devise classnames for their own ships.
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Re: ship editor

Postby bkdevil » Fri Jan 27, 2017 5:20 pm

This brings up the question in my mind regarding what another entity will be able to tell about your ship, or what you will be able to tell about others' ships. Has there been any comments on whether or not I can look at any ship and instantly know the exact damage output its weapons has, or what its max acceleration is? Will any "police" ships be able to look at me and instantly know that information?
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Re: ship editor

Postby Cornflakes_91 » Fri Jan 27, 2017 5:37 pm

bkdevil wrote:This brings up the question in my mind regarding what another entity will be able to tell about your ship, or what you will be able to tell about others' ships. Has there been any comments on whether or not I can look at any ship and instantly know the exact damage output its weapons has, or what its max acceleration is? Will any "police" ships be able to look at me and instantly know that information?


They dont need to know everything to see that your ship is a weapon bristling fortress, though.
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Re: ship editor

Postby bkdevil » Fri Jan 27, 2017 6:03 pm

Cornflakes_91 wrote:They dont need to know everything to see that your ship is a weapon bristling fortress, though.


Absolutely true, but how much they can tell about me will determine how much police forces could be deceived. Your suggested generic formula requires that any ship looking at me has to have some idea of my offensive capabilities. It's easy to count the number of weapons I have strapped to my ship, but will it be easy for them to tell if that single laser cannon is some super upgraded death beam the likes of which they've never seen in that sector?
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Re: ship editor

Postby Cornflakes_91 » Fri Jan 27, 2017 6:21 pm

bkdevil wrote:Absolutely true, but how much they can tell about me will determine how much police forces could be deceived. Your suggested generic formula requires that any ship looking at me has to have some idea of my offensive capabilities. It's easy to count the number of weapons I have strapped to my ship, but will it be easy for them to tell if that single laser cannon is some super upgraded death beam the likes of which they've never seen in that sector?


Well, yeah, it assumes smooth and relatively slow spatial tech variations.
But i think thats more of an edge case than a large problem.
It also makes for interesting storytelling, though.
Like the surprise in Babylon 5 when the whitestars who were far too small for normal hyperdrives suddenly had that ability.
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