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Re: The General Unhappiness Thread

#46
Ah, let me clarify. By "mentioning dates" I mean "I'll release in six months!" not "I think there's this much time left". I'm talking more about concrete times and less about estimates. He's tried to set concrete "due dates" before, and not only has it not worked, but it's not likely to, either.

I've also tried to impress upon him the importance of saying what's left to do. Hopefully he'll listen. :) Most of all, right now, he needs to let everybody know the state of the project, and I hope he will.
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Re: The General Unhappiness Thread

#48
Talvieno wrote:Ah, let me clarify. By "mentioning dates" I mean "I'll release in six months!" not "I think there's this much time left". I'm talking more about concrete times and less about estimates. He's tried to set concrete "due dates" before, and not only has it not worked, but it's not likely to, either.

I've also tried to impress upon him the importance of saying what's left to do. Hopefully he'll listen. :) Most of all, right now, he needs to let everybody know the state of the project, and I hope he will.
That's definitely what I was hoping for, Tal; we've said it before and I'm sure we'll say it again: You Da Man.
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Re: The General Unhappiness Thread

#49
kostuek wrote:
Talvieno wrote:
He's asked me not to reveal anything else.
Why?
I rather agree with him. It's his project, not mine. He should be the one telling you guys about new developments, not me. :) Unless I was the "official" community manager, of course - but right now I'm only his unofficial one until he says otherwise. Plus, I don't know enough of the details to tell you guys everything. It's better if he does it.
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Re: The General Unhappiness Thread

#50
Talvieno wrote:
kostuek wrote:
Talvieno wrote:
He's asked me not to reveal anything else.
Why?
I rather agree with him. It's his project, not mine. He should be the one telling you guys stuff, not me. :) Unless I was the "official" community manager, of course - but right now I'm only his unofficial one until he says otherwise. Plus, I don't know enough of the details to tell you guys everything. It's better if he does it.
In my opinion, he should concentrate on telling stuff on kickstarter, maybe even do some video. Because, quite honestly, the generic speech about "working hard" and "the dream game" is getting kind of old. I think, a little bit more effort is needed after all this time.
But here on the forums? No one cares about this "official - unofficial" stuff, I think. You would just chat with him then and when and told us some interesting points. No big drama needed.
But well, that's just my opinion. It's not like I understand this guy and his communication decisions. :monkey:
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Re: The General Unhappiness Thread

#51
That's part of the reason. I pushed very hard for him to get an update to the Kickstarter (even without all the flashy bits he likes to include). If all goes well, he'll post in both places.
kostuek wrote:But here on the forums? No one cares about this "official - unofficial" stuff, I think. You would just chat with him then and when and told us some interesting points. No big drama needed.
I disagree, sadly. I'm quite sure a number of people would come along with, "But why didn't he post here? You're just a mod, what do you know?" It's happened before. :shifty:
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Re: The General Unhappiness Thread

#52
Whatever else he decides to do with the news update, I would strongly suggest that he post it to Kickstarter before he does so here.

This place is more or less an echo chamber driven by a dedicated few, and backers are somewhat underrepresented here. Yet Josh's true responsibility lies with them.

I respect Josh's need for privacy. I appreciate his working hard. I sympathize with his health difficulties. But the combination of these appear to have manifested in him a certain emotional fragility that he would do well to get over. Sooner or later he will have to deal with reality, which he has so far shut out. In fact his functioning seems dependent on this kind of mental construction. But the nice thing about reality is that it never really goes away. Posting to Kickstarter, I think, would be a good step toward acknowledging this. And it won't hurt as much as he thinks.
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Re: The General Unhappiness Thread

#53
Dinosawer wrote:Given that a previous "tomorrow" was given in september or october, yes he does :ghost:
I became curious looking at this and earlier posts and decided to try and formulate another possible explanation. If Josh is traveling relativistically and experiencing time dialation, perhaps it really has been just one day for him. According to Wolfram Alpha, he is likely moving at about .9999c. I'm rather impressed that he can communicate with us at all at that speed!
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Re: The General Unhappiness Thread

#54
Talvieno wrote: I disagree, sadly. I'm quite sure a number of people would come along with, "But why didn't he post here? You're just a mod, what do you know?" It's happened before. :shifty:
I'm in this camp, but mainly I just consider it unwise to tie yourself to Josh from a communication standpoint right now. You start speaking for him and then he fails to deliver, and it's no longer him who made false promises, it's you. That's not something anyone needs.
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Re: The General Unhappiness Thread

#57
Hm... since it is the unhappiness thread: I'm getting worried about Josh's potential post. If there is no substancial information -- well... :problem: if there is, mostly everyone will probably praise him for having something to tell. But in the case of showing some progress, more than ever it doesn't excuse for ignoring his supporters for such a long time. As said before, I don't like that behaviour and it makes me sad, that a single progress report after this long time will make him a saviour within an instant of a second.
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Re: The General Unhappiness Thread

#58
smurfer wrote:it doesn't excuse for ignoring his supporters for such a long time.
Agreed. I'm having a hard time wanting to support whatever is going on; no product, no community contact, promises made and not fulfilled, there's just a whole host of issues which result in 1) a desire to play the game which generated my initial interest 2) a lot of negative opinions relating to Josh himself 3) gratitude for the existence of this community to give me something which isn't entirely negative related to the game and 4) a very strong inclination not to support future KS's (I've already stopped since 2014) as well as other things produced by developers who - like Josh - ghost their community and behave unprofessionally.
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Re: The General Unhappiness Thread

#59
Ringu wrote:
Talvieno wrote:I've strongly advised him against mentioning dates unless he has something to hold him to it no matter what... given his history of schedule slippage. :P A slipping schedule isn't unusual for solo indie developers, but it just serves to get our hopes up for nothing.
Being completely honest, I wish you hadn't advised that.

If Josh takes that on board, the very most we're going to get from him in future will be "I'm working hard on it, and I'll release it when it's done".

Whereas, saying "I think there's a year left until beta, and here's a plan that shows the remaining elements and my estimation for them", is my ideal - and actually, about the only thing Josh could possibly say at this point that would restore any kind of confidence or even hope in me again.

Anything else, and it's just same old, same old. Back to the same patterns. And I really, for his sake as much as ours, really don't want that to be the case.
Long time lurker, infrequent poster here. I agree with the sentiment here Ringu, but honestly at this point, what difference does it make? If he says "Still working hard, giving it my all, and it'll be done when it's done" vs. "One year left, here's my plan", I frankly wouldn't believe the latter. Not because I think he doesn't want that to be the case, or doesn't believe it himself, but because he has shown very little ability to turn actual plans into results. (I know this isn't fair, who knows how much progress he's made behind closed doors, but I think it's safe to say that if great progress was made and things were moving along swimmingly the communications issues wouldn't be what they are....)

Just my 2 cents. I used to be extremely hopeful for this project, and thought I would buy it on day 1, but at this point, I'll believe it when I see it. And when it's released I'll be extremely skeptical. I'm curious, if this Josh post actually happens, to see what progress has been made on the game. What happened with all the communications, I frankly don't care about. That ship has sailed, all I'm interested in now is the game, and if it will be completed and released.

I wish a pessimistic post wasn't what brought me out of lurk mode, but alas, it is what it is. I hope for the sake of you LT-faithful who have persisted here long term that he releases one heck of post-mortem on the silence, and you all get the progress update you deserve! :cheers:
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Re: The General Unhappiness Thread

#60
I know this isn't fair, who knows how much progress he's made behind closed doors
Well, then he could have posted something.
I know, I'm cutting your sentence, so this
but I think it's safe to say that if great progress was made and things were moving along swimmingly the communications issues wouldn't be what they are...
puts it a little more into perspective.

Maybe it's annoying, that I focus on this aspect, but I think most of what's written in this forum by now is because of two reasons:
1. Getting information
2. Social interaction
Concerning LT, I just want this project ot be done. I could relax and wait for a message. But involving here (now actually contributing and not just reading) is pure social interaction, learning and developing from discussions, getting to know peoples attitudes, arguments, expressing my own point of view and so on. And referring to this, I just have a problem with the fact that people praise "the Josh" without question (remember the reaction when he appeared online). So in my opinion, the best for all -- including Josh -- would be a progress report actually showing progress, some explanation, and a moderate reaction in terms of "This was overdue, but well done, now it's your turn to show you actually keep this going." vs. "Praise the Josh".
Last edited by smurfer on Fri Jan 20, 2017 3:52 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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